Virginia Citizen's Militia

[mamabearCali]

Also to answer your worry Kruetz about a huge military attack on a civilian group on American soil (an A bomb is the picture you had) those cool toys that are big and bad would have to be employed by the military--who have sworn an oath to defend the constitution and the American people as a whole--annihilating a whole city would fall outside that oath.

And they would NEVER do such a thing.

Again.

Not sure why I am getting banged here. The deployment of huge weapons takes many many hands. If any one of them says --"wait my mother lives in Dallas"--no dice. The civil war worked because one military force that engaged the other was regional. No one from NY was required to fire on New Yorkers. That would not be the case with our military these days. That is actually why VA went to the south because they could not and would not send their soldiers to kill their own family members just south of them.

[jim100]

In the end it is nothing but an interesting debate because whomever has the will and arms to force the other makes the rules.

Glad to see you (finally) agree with me.

Freedom is illusory, might makes right. Speak up, get smashed down.

Wha? "Might makes right". So by your logic the mere ability to do somthing makes it right to do so? So when the soviet government murdered 50 million of their people it was right to do so because they had the "might" to do so?

[shepherd]

I don't have anything else to say about your little band of statist moops and your pirated logo.

Nice. Well Travis, that is your name right - you have only shown everyone here why we just couldn't allow you back on the forum. Your attitude is abrasive, your rants are shrill and you lack proper boundaries or restraint.

As far as the "pirated logo" remark. You and I discussed this at length while you were trying to re-enter the yahoo group a couple of years ago. At the time I thought we had an amiable exchange about our two designs. We both work in a creative profession and it was nice to talk about something other than ARs, AKs and the wonders of para chord for a change.

----------------

For those who are unfamiliar to this situation - Travis started to design a logo for the VCM back when it was just the VM. He used serif fonts and the Culpepper snake over the Virginian flag. It was one of a couple designs, and a good one, but he was booted off because of his behavior. That was while I had taken a leave of absence from the forum. I had designed a logo for them a few years ago that was a circle with the silhouette of an M16 with the words Virginia Militia across the middle. I came back when I heard they were putting together a new logo. That was right after Travis was kicked off. I had not seen Travis' design at that point.

Since I am a fan of the TEA Party movement I was familiar with the Gadsden flag, so I used that one with San Serif fonts as I also knew it would be made into a patch and serif fonts look strange when embroidered. The Gadsden flag was also a very popular at the time with all the rallies on the DC Mall so that is another reason I chose it. The colors were selected to compliment the multicam BDUs. If I remember correctly the one Travis designed would have worked with woodland camo.

Using the coiled snake over the shape of Virginia and the state motto was a natural choice. Travis also made the same choices and when he and I communicated last I told him that great minds must think alike because his design and mine were very similar but obviously not the same. I think he also included three stars or something like that. I'm not sure what they were for. As you all know, Travis is very smart about history so he can tell you exactly what that meant.

For him to claim that the logo was pirated is a lie. He is just bitter because of rejection. I believe at the time we wished him well but decided he wasn't a good fit. I think that if he really does want to be part of a militia group he should form his own, or find one that is a better fit. Lord knows there are plenty out there. But whining about the VCM is, well, whining.

VM_VCM_sidebyside.png (31.34 KiB) Viewed 2537 times

The images above are the two logos I designed for them. I invite Travis to post his so everyone can see his work He is a talented artist and had some nice ideas. I'm sure if he decides to join/start his own group he will create a logo they can all be proud to wear.

[Jakeiscrazy]

So has anyone ever had trouble with LE, fedral or local, because of their association with VCM?

[shepherd]

So has anyone ever had trouble with LE, fedral or local, because of their association with VCM?

I heard that many years ago someone who had set himself up as a commander of the VC'sM or VM and got caught doing something, but I don't know any of the details. I'm sure you can google it but I wouldn't even know what to search for to find the article. This was way before my time and I've been with them since the AW ban.

This is what happens when you have a leadership structure like that. You set yourself up for a fall. You have one guy that gets singled out, whether through stupidity or being set up or whatever. The fedcoats will find a way to bring you down, make an example and scare others from joining up.

The VCM does not have a central command or commander. There is no head to cut off.

We also do not tolerate any kind of illegal behavior. I have told some of the guys at our Meet & Greets that if I hear of even a whisper of illegal activity I will turn them in myself. We try to screen new members and allow for certain personality traits, but you can usually spot the tinfoil hat crowd. They get sent home.

Much to Travis' consternation, the purpose of the VCM is not to cause trouble. Our mission is training. That has always been the mission of the militia since the very beginning of our nation. And we intend to carry out our mission within the confines of the law. The point is to enjoy our freedom, and that's not going to happen if we end up in jail because of some a$$clown who can't follow the rules.

A couple of years ago we did volunteer work at Lobby Day. We worked a parking lot and did radio com training. We also passed out brochures and basically stood around getting our pictures taken. In some of those photos we are seen standing next to the Capitol Police. That is the image we want for the VCM. We are the good guys, not a bunch of gun nuts running around in the woods.

Although sometimes we actually do run around in the woods with guns.

[Kreutz]

My parents who are quite happy go lucky kind of people have begun to think that everything is not as stable as it seems, and were asking me the other day if canadian goose can be eaten if the need was there.

Theyre gamey. I had roasted goose (Gäns) in Germany.

Also to answer your worry Kruetz about a huge military attack on a civilian group on American soil (an A bomb is the picture you had) those cool toys that are big and bad would have to be employed by the military--who have sworn an oath to defend the constitution and the American people as a whole--annihilating a whole city would fall outside that oath.

This blind faith in the military is extremely telling of how you view the world...methinks you may be more comfortable with government than even I.

Most soldiers truly loathe civilians to begin with-they see them as fat, lazy, and spoiled...which they are, so I suppose its justified. Tell them city A is held by "rebellious racist terrorists", and voila; everyone is now dehumanized as "the enemy", and can be slaughtered with a smile. Plus senior officers are slaves to their promised pensions (essentially their heavenly reward for obedience) and would never jeopardize them by doing a silly thing like disobeying orders.

In any event, "toys" have been used on us before, and will be again. Anthrax in the NY subway circa 1954. God knows what really happened on 9/11.

You can also ask the folks at Waco, Kent State, or Ruby Ridge how kindly their "protectors" were to them. Oh, they're dead. Nevermind.

The deployment of huge weapons takes many many hands. If any one of them says --"wait my mother lives in Dallas"--no dice. The civil war worked because one military force that engaged the other was regional. No one from NY was required to fire on New Yorkers. That would not be the case with our military these days. That is actually why VA went to the south because they could not and would not send their soldiers to kill their own family members just south of them.

Do you really think the people in charge got there by being stupid? They will plan for that. Been done before. Remember the tanks squashing people in Tiananmen Square? That was in Beijing. Do you know what the powers that be did before the tanks rolled in? They dismissed soldiers from Beijing, and brought in units from the countryside to march in. Problem of possible insubordination from running over Granny averted.

The Powers That Be (in any time or place) are ruthless. No other way for them to be.

Wha? "Might makes right". So by your logic the mere ability to do somthing makes it right to do so? So when the soviet government murdered 50 million of their people it was right to do so because they had the "might" to do so?

They did it didn't they? And got away with it? So...they won? Guess it did make them right. When your opponents are in mass graves its difficult for them to offer a contrary opinion, so the victors is correct by process of (extreme) elimination. Not supporting the morality of it, just the reality of it.

[Kreutz]

A couple of years ago we did volunteer work at Lobby Day. We worked a parking lot and did radio com training. We also passed out brochures and basically stood around getting our pictures taken. In some of those photos we are seen standing next to the Capitol Police. That is the image we want for the VCM. We are the good guys, not a bunch of gun nuts running around in the woods.

Oy vey.

[mamabearCali]

This blind faith in the military is extremely telling of how you view the world...methinks you may be more comfortable with government than even I.

Most soldiers truly loathe civilians to begin with-they see them as fat, lazy, and spoiled...which they are, so I suppose its justified. Tell them city A is held by "rebellious racist terrorists", and voila; everyone is now dehumanized as "the enemy", and can be slaughtered with a smile. Plus senior officers are slaves to their promised pensions (essentially their heavenly reward for obedience) and would never jeopardize them by doing a silly thing like disobeying orders.


In any event, "toys" have been used on us before, and will be again. Anthrax in the NY subway circa 1954. God knows what really happened on 9/11.

You can also ask the folks at Waco, Kent State, or Ruby Ridge how kindly their "protectors" were to them. Oh, they're dead. Nevermind.

Somehow in all our conversations I doubt I have more comfort with big government than you Kruetz. I just remember that our military comes from our citizenry and is by and large middle class in nature, and has to live here too when they are not doing their job elsewhere. They have family throughout the country and are not local. Waco, Kent State, Ruby Ridge could all happen because they were isolated incidents and the FBI (not the military) put all their resources towards those poor people and the then the cover-up story. In a true SHTF situation with real fighting on the ground between civilian and gov't forces they won't have enough man-power/toys to compete. Remember the American revolution and Vietnam--a true local insurgency is near impossible to fight effectively with "toys"

Do you really think the people in charge got there by being stupid? They will plan for that. Been done before. Remember the tanks squashing people in Tiananmen Square? That was in Beijing. Do you know what the powers that be did before the tanks rolled in? They dismissed soldiers from Beijing, and brought in units from the countryside to march in. Problem of possible insubordination from running over Granny averted.

That works if your miliatry forces are divided up into local divisions--that is not how our military is divided up. So you have a person from TX next to a person from NY next to a person from CA. No good way to undo that without showing your hand real quick

The Powers That Be (in any time or place) are ruthless. No other way for them to be.

And you are in favor of a "robust" federal gov't. If that is true then everything else you have said of late fails logic.

They did it didn't they? And got away with it? So...they won? Guess it did make them right. When your opponents are in mass graves its difficult for them to offer a contrary opinion, so the victors is correct by process of (extreme) elimination. Not supporting the morality of it, just the reality of it.

Did they get away with it--well they did manage to murder millions, but they could not erase the records of what they had done. We know about it, the free world holds them in contempt, and has used them as an example of the worst of the worst. If any of them were still alive I suspect they could and would be tried as mass murderers. Also there is this little thing called sowing and reaping, or Karma, or your chickens coming home to roost. I tend to think that when you perpetrate horrible crimes like that, consequences will fall, if not in this world them most certainly in the next.

[gunderwood]

@Kreutz

Very slick of you to change the argument. I point you back to your post...

I'll keep my mouth shut, the militia types are free to get themselves cluster-bombed if they wish.

Edit:

George Washington never had to plan for one of these paying a visit to Vally Forge:

The asymmetry of force between say, the militia (already forgot its name) in this thread (the small % that aren't feds and even smaller % that would fight) and the government means the citizenry simply have no chance. Trust me, its best to shut up, pay your taxes, and MYOB.

You made a generic argument that a militia could not defeat a government such as ours, specifically with the possible application of nukes. I made a multifaceted counter argument. No where in it did I argue for a second revolution/civil war. No where in it did I say we needed one. No where in it did I say the people were ready for one today. Nor did I say anywhere that revolution is the only possible end of this current government. It is foolish to presume that this American experiment with government will exist forever; history teaches just the opposite. At some point it will end and when it does, it will collapse under it's corruption or be done away with by the force of revolution. Until then it will likely morph into subtlety different forms while masquerading as the same thing.

Under the second option, revolution, an asymmetric force, such as a militia, is a very dangerous threat to even the most powerful army. Iraq and Afghanistan are just the latest examples, but history is repeat with them. Nukes don't change that. Such strategic weapons are of little value in an asymmetric conflict. Furthermore, it's the threat of their use that's useful, not the actual use. Much like a hostage situation, it's the threat that keeps the hostage takers in charge. Their power degrades rapidly after they cross the line from threat to actual violence. I.e. if you're going to die anyways, might as well go down swinging.

Iraq and Afghanistan are completely different.

1) They are far away. Distance increases supply lines, which screws with logistics.

Try fighting a war where your supply line is the battle front and half of the people you need to make your fancy weapons are against you. Your right, it's very different...it's much, much worse!

2) Their populace consists of young angry people hardened by oppression, hunger, and accustomed to violence. Ours consists of morbidly obese people that go into conniptions when the cost of a stamp rises one cent.

This is quite a disparity.

You must not have read my post. I said that things change in the people long before any successful revolution can occur. Those changes are not always easily seen and there are a lot of false positives. Hindsights 20/20, but if it were so easy to realize the change there wouldn't need to be a revolution. Does the fact that a lot of people who previously never owned guns started buying them mean anything? Maybe, maybe not. Does the resurgence of interest in returning to Constitutional government mean anything? Maybe, maybe not. Does the re-establishment of the American militia system (assuming that actually gains momentum and happens) mean anything? Maybe, maybe not. Etc. Mamabear could be right, perhaps these things are the beginning of something more. Then again, movements like the Tea Party have come and gone before, so maybe not.

Besides, a militia is far more than a "revolutionary" force...not that you would understand that if all you know about the militia's history is from TV. E.g. there were and should be aspects of LE and crisis management too.

Again, that's the problem with hypotheticals. It's easy to talk a big game, but much harder to actually follow through. On the other hand, ordinary people have done amazing things when pressed into it.

In order for a revolution to be successful the hearts and minds of the people need to change first, then all more reasonable courses of action need to be exhausted. Only then is a revolution likely. Only then can it get the support it needs to win.

Again, have you been to America? Have you seen the size and laziness of these people?

Are you aware of how few actually fought in the American Revolution? Are you aware statistically how few of the Iraqi population where insurgents? I don't think you quite grasp the concepts of asymmetric warfare.

[Kreutz]

@Kreutz

Very slick of you to change the argument. I point you back to your post...

I'll keep my mouth shut, the militia types are free to get themselves cluster-bombed if they wish.

Edit:

George Washington never had to plan for one of these paying a visit to Vally Forge:

The asymmetry of force between say, the militia (already forgot its name) in this thread (the small % that aren't feds and even smaller % that would fight) and the government means the citizenry simply have no chance. Trust me, its best to shut up, pay your taxes, and MYOB.

You made a generic argument that a militia could not defeat a government such as ours, specifically with the possible application of nukes. I made a multifaceted counter argument. No where in it did I argue for a second revolution/civil war. No where in it did I say we needed one. No where in it did I say the people were ready for one today. Nor did I say anywhere that revolution is the only possible end of this current government. It is foolish to presume that this American experiment with government will exist forever; history teaches just the opposite. At some point it will end and when it does, it will collapse under it's corruption or be done away with by the force of revolution. Until then it will likely morph into subtlety different forms while masquerading as the same thing.

Under the second option, revolution, an asymmetric force, such as a militia, is a very dangerous threat to even the most powerful army. Iraq and Afghanistan are just the latest examples, but history is repeat with them. Nukes don't change that. Such strategic weapons are of little value in an asymmetric conflict. Furthermore, it's the threat of their use that's useful, not the actual use. Much like a hostage situation, it's the threat that keeps the hostage takers in charge. Their power degrades rapidly after they cross the line from threat to actual violence. I.e. if you're going to die anyways, might as well go down swinging.

Iraq and Afghanistan are completely different.

1) They are far away. Distance increases supply lines, which screws with logistics.

Try fighting a war where your supply line is the battle front and half of the people you need to make your fancy weapons are against you. Your right, it's very different...it's much, much worse!

2) Their populace consists of young angry people hardened by oppression, hunger, and accustomed to violence. Ours consists of morbidly obese people that go into conniptions when the cost of a stamp rises one cent.

This is quite a disparity.

You must not have read my post. I said that things change in the people long before any successful revolution can occur. Those changes are not always easily seen and there are a lot of false positives. Hindsights 20/20, but if it were so easy to realize the change there wouldn't need to be a revolution. Does the fact that a lot of people who previously never owned guns started buying them mean anything? Maybe, maybe not. Does the resurgence of interest in returning to Constitutional government mean anything? Maybe, maybe not. Does the re-establishment of the American militia system (assuming that actually gains momentum and happens) mean anything? Maybe, maybe not. Etc. Mamabear could be right, perhaps these things are the beginning of something more. Then again, movements like the Tea Party have come and gone before, so maybe not.

Besides, a militia is far more than a "revolutionary" force...not that you would understand that if all you know about the militia's history is from TV. E.g. there were and should be aspects of LE and crisis management too.

Again, that's the problem with hypotheticals. It's easy to talk a big game, but much harder to actually follow through. On the other hand, ordinary people have done amazing things when pressed into it.

In order for a revolution to be successful the hearts and minds of the people need to change first, then all more reasonable courses of action need to be exhausted. Only then is a revolution likely. Only then can it get the support it needs to win.

Again, have you been to America? Have you seen the size and laziness of these people?

Are you aware of how few actually fought in the American Revolution? Are you aware statistically how few of the Iraqi population where insurgents? I don't think you quite grasp the concepts of asymmetric warfare.

@ Gunderwood

Feel free to crush an Abrams with a print-out of your theses; its our only hope.

[Jakeiscrazy]

So has anyone ever had trouble with LE, fedral or local, because of their association with VCM?

I heard that many years ago someone who had set himself up as a commander of the VC'sM or VM and got caught doing something, but I don't know any of the details. I'm sure you can google it but I wouldn't even know what to search for to find the article. This was way before my time and I've been with them since the AW ban.

This is what happens when you have a leadership structure like that. You set yourself up for a fall. You have one guy that gets singled out, whether through stupidity or being set up or whatever. The fedcoats will find a way to bring you down, make an example and scare others from joining up.

The VCM does not have a central command or commander. There is no head to cut off.

We also do not tolerate any kind of illegal behavior. I have told some of the guys at our Meet & Greets that if I hear of even a whisper of illegal activity I will turn them in myself. We try to screen new members and allow for certain personality traits, but you can usually spot the tinfoil hat crowd. They get sent home.

Much to Travis' consternation, the purpose of the VCM is not to cause trouble. Our mission is training. That has always been the mission of the militia since the very beginning of our nation. And we intend to carry out our mission within the confines of the law. The point is to enjoy our freedom, and that's not going to happen if we end up in jail because of some a$$clown who can't follow the rules.

A couple of years ago we did volunteer work at Lobby Day. We worked a parking lot and did radio com training. We also passed out brochures and basically stood around getting our pictures taken. In some of those photos we are seen standing next to the Capitol Police. That is the image we want for the VCM. We are the good guys, not a bunch of gun nuts running around in the woods.

Although sometimes we actually do run around in the woods with guns.

That's good to hear. I'm trying to think of anything else to ask but I think I have run out of questions! Thanks for answering some of mine.

[zephyp]

Also, the VCM is a joke. They want to run around in the woods and play pretend soldier, but they won't even remotely entertain the thought that they may be FORCED BY DUTY to engage their own government in war in order to sustain (or recover) liberty.

For that they get the label "cowards" from me.

They are firmly pro-Amerikha. Any talk in defense of Dixie is not tolerated and discussion of secession as a means to restore sovereignty is verboten.

Wow, this is so inaccurate I don't know where to begin.

In the future, please pay attention to your posts when you quote someone. I did not say that. Wylde did...

[gunderwood]

@ Gunderwood

Feel free to crush an Abrams with a print-out of your theses; its our only hope.

@Kreutz

Your ignorance is showing again. I challenged your argument and that's all you have? I guess you concede it all?


I'm also guessing you never seen what low tech and easily available materials in this country do to armored vehicles up to and including tanks such as the Abrams? Unless it has a v-hull, you have serious problems. The Abrams specifically is a bit heavy to toss around like a toy, but it can and has been done.

One of many open source examples you can find if you bothered to Google rather than post ignorant attacks: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq ... nk-a_x.htm

Besides, even a novice strategist knows that the urban environment negates most of the tanks tactical advantages and you should avoid putting them there when ever possible.

Edit: I'm also guessing that you don't know about the guided 50BMG (wire guided IIRC) test where they successfully detonated a main battle tanks magazine...there's no such thing as an invincible weapon, even Death Stars have weaknesses.

[Kreutz]

@ Gunderwood

Feel free to crush an Abrams with a print-out of your theses; its our only hope.

@Kreutz

Your ignorance is showing again. I challenged your argument and that's all you have? I guess you concede it all?

Verbal (textual?) diarrhea an argument is not. You take fifteen words to say what most people can say in three. Simply boring me is not a challenge, its a win by default because I DONT HAVE THE TIME TO READ PAGES OF TEXT, at best I skim them, usually I scroll past them.

I'm also guessing you never seen what low tech and easily available materials in this country do to armored vehicles up to and including tanks such as the Abrams? Unless it has a v-hull, you have serious problems. The Abrams specifically is a bit heavy to toss around like a toy, but it can and has been done.

One of many open source examples you can find if you bothered to Google rather than post ignorant attacks: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq ... nk-a_x.htm

Besides, even a novice strategist knows that the urban environment negates most of the tanks tactical advantages and you should avoid putting them there when ever possible.

Edit: I'm also guessing that you don't know about the guided 50BMG (wire guided IIRC) test where they successfully detonated a main battle tanks magazine...there's no such thing as an invincible weapon, even Death Stars have weaknesses.

yes yes, break a tank with a stick (or whatever, I'm not clicking the link because I don't care). AGAIN, for the at least FIFTH time, what makes you think these future guerrilla fighters are going to DO it, without keeling over from an occluded coronary artery whilst running up to it?




Yeah, that's the new normal btw. And you're prattling on about "tactical advantages in an urban environment"...are you delusional?

The fat lazy weak-willed countrymen you keep ascribing these magical nonexistant powers of resistance to is mind-boggling in its persistence. Given your intellect I can only ascribe this falalcy to some kind of fervent hope.

YES I know few participated in the Revolutionary War; again, DIFFERENT time, DIFFERENT people, DIFFERENT war. Todays fractured Balkanized sacs of redundant protoplasm cannot (literally due to language barriers) and will not unite, for anything other than self-interest.

Big difference in wind powered ships leaving England and taking weeks to get here with 18th century technology versus plentiful CONUS bases and modern technology.

Drop your fantasies of overthrowing the government, and do what I did. Read Ride the Tiger by Julius Evola; it tells you everything you need to survive what may or may not come.

[mamabearCali]

Now Kruetz most kids even the ones that are a bit tubby do not look like that! Sadly, those poor kids won't likely survive to their 30th birthday if they don't get a grip. I bet though if you took a look at my kids and yours we would see a very different picture of America. I look around at church/home school group and I don't see any--not any kids that look that big.

Also I don't think it is a matter of trying to bring down the government. Right now GOD FORBID! That thought actually sends chills down my spine, and makes me nauseous. The one we have now can still be fixed if we are both lucky and careful. Quite honestly, though I am really irritated with a great deal of what I see today, there is no where else I would rather live. I think if the SHTF it is not a matter of over throwing anyone but simply trying to ride out the death throes of a once great nation. It would be really really ugly. I would guess that we must both be ready to stick together to fight a paramilitary force encroaching on our neighborhood and at the same time practice staying under the radar. How do we do both--don't know--still thinking on that one.

But I think that militias if they did exist in the scenario would be more like armed and coordinated neighborhood/town watches. It will not be the virginia militia watching out for virginia it will be in our area W. Chesterfield or N Virginia Beach and SE Va beach. You get my picture.

[Kreutz]

Now Kruetz most kids even the ones that are a bit tubby do not look like that! Sadly, those poor kids won't likely survive to their 30th birthday if they don't get a grip. I bet though if you took a look at my kids and yours we would see a very different picture of America. I look around at church/home school group and I don't see any--not any kids that look that big.

That level of childhood obesity is currently more limited to major cities, but it is spreading sadly....but then again, more people live in cities nowadays too.

Also I don't think it is a matter of trying to bring down the government.

Clear your schedule to make the time to read G-woods posts. Most people dont look up how to sabotage tanks just in case a stray one gets in the garden. Thats deliberate planning for one and only one thing; war.

To be fair I'm not picking on just him, there is a strong belief in a sizeable number of right-wing people that they will one day be going toe to toe with Uncle Sam, which is laughable given the physical and mental state of the American citizenry.

Right now GOD FORBID! That thought actually sends chills down my spine, and makes me nauseous. The one we have now can still be fixed if we are both lucky and careful.


Quite honestly, though I am really irritated with a great deal of what I see today, there is no where else I would rather live. I think if the SHTF it is not a matter of over throwing anyone but simply trying to ride out the death throes of a once great nation.

Holy hell, we see eye to eye on something. I also dont feel particularly "oppressed" by my government, more annoyed than anything else.

I also think "SHTF" scenarios are more paranoia (and perhaps wishful thinking?) than anything else; it will take generations for this ship to finally sink.

It took Rome centuries after all. America will go out with a gasp, not a battle cry.

It would be really really ugly. I would guess that we must both be ready to stick together to fight a paramilitary force encroaching on our neighborhood and at the same time practice staying under the radar. How do we do both--don't know--still thinking on that one.

But I think that militias if they did exist in the scenario would be more like armed and coordinated neighborhood/town watches. It will not be the virginia militia watching out for virginia it will be in our area W. Chesterfield or N Virginia Beach and SE Va beach. You get my picture.

Methinks myself, my children, their children, and even their children will be long dead of old age before that happens.

[grumpyMSG]

Kreutz you are hilariously disillusioned, you write as if there are tons of right wing terrorists out there looking to clash with the U.S. Military, it is far from the truth. Most of the mob type violence tends to happen in the cities that are run by Democrats. As for demographics, I think you will find that more than half of the Military have conservative or Libertarian leanings, you will also find they aren't itching for a fight with the American people. There are those members that like Private Bradley Manning and Major Nadal Hasan, but they are the exception not the rule.

By the way your diatribes are every bit as long winded as gunderwood's and you seem to take far more time on here responding multiple times to the threads, instead of once and moving on. He seems to have gotten tired of being on here or busy elsewhere in life so he doesn't post as often as he did. You on the other hand seem to just be picking up speed...

[tursiops]

I don't have anything else to say about your little band of statist moops and your pirated logo.

This is the best news I have read in ages.

[Reverenddel]

I think more people have been listening and they're doing minimalists things, but I still think as long as they're fed, occupied, and dependent on the guv'mint?

They ain't doing a thing.

[Kreutz]

Kreutz you are hilariously disillusioned, you write as if there are tons of right wing terrorists out there looking to clash with the U.S. Military, it is far from the truth.

No, I don't. A few militia types and lone-wolf psychos are all there is, which is not contrary to anything I've said. Resistance would be small, disorganized, and rapidly crushed.

Most of the mob type violence tends to happen in the cities that are run by Democrats.

Riots in inner cities (which is funny because they burn down their own housing projects) a revolution is not.

As for demographics, I think you will find that more than half of the Military have conservative or Libertarian leanings,

Source?

you will also find they aren't itching for a fight with the American people.

Never said they "were itching for a fight", I said they'd follow their orders.

like Private Bradley Manning and Major Nadal Hasan, but they are the exception not the rule.

What do either have to do with anything? The former leaked some intel, the other shot up his base.

You on the other hand seem to just be picking up speed...

Maybe?

I think more people have been listening and they're doing minimalists things, but I still think as long as they're fed, occupied, and dependent on the guv'mint?

They ain't doing a thing.

You sir get the big picture.