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[allingeneral]

You know dorminWS it seems to me that our ancestors--heck even our grandparents were made of sterner stuff than we are. Why is that? Is it the vaccines? The air conditioning? The floride in our water? What makes the current populace so lily livered when our ancestors were so strong?

Its a common misconception newer generations have it easier. Both Aristotle and Plato bemoaned the generation after them as weak willed and lazy; apparently they wore shoes in the snow unlike their fathers.

So this perception has been around for millenia-literally.

There's a huge difference between the way civilization "advanced" in Plato's and Aristotle's time than the revolutionary scientific advancements that we've seen over the last several generations - especially the internet and the changes in our society that freely available porn and anything else anyone could ever want has caused. We truly are perverse, and the internet is largely to blame along with the political correctness mentality that little Johny must be a winner every time - there can be no losers.

These are several thoughts all run together, but I think you get the idea - and I don't feel like elaborating.

[Kreutz]

There's a huge difference between the way civilization "advanced" in Plato's and Aristotle's time than the revolutionary scientific advancements that we've seen over the last several generations - especially the internet and the changes in our society that freely available porn and anything else anyone could ever want has caused. We truly are perverse,

Again, a misconception. Viewing the past as noble and moral, the present and future as corrupt and decadent.

Again using poor Aristotle and Plato, in their culture you would be very brave or very stupid to leave your son and/or horse unattended around groups of men. I need not go into detail why; what would have happened to them would have been A-OK culturally. You may even have joined in.

As for the Depression, I've seen some porn from the 20's-30's; you know, the previously lauded awesome morally upright Depression generation?

They did eeeeverything that happens now. People never change; just the technological mediums.

Fun fact, the motion picture was invented in 1895...first motion porn (photos are similarly as old as the camera) was made in 1896.

and the internet is largely to blame along

It only eases access to whats already there. These kinks did not manifest out of thin air in the late 90's when AOL popularized internet access.

with the political correctness mentality that little Johny must be a winner every time - there can be no losers.

Eh, its stupid and irks me too, but, whatever.

These are several thoughts all run together, but I think you get the idea - and I don't feel like elaborating.

I get the idea, I catch myself doing it too despite the fact i know better. The reality is though nothing changes.

[mamabearCali]

You know dorminWS it seems to me that our ancestors--heck even our grandparents were made of sterner stuff than we are. Why is that? Is it the vaccines? The air conditioning? The floride in our water? What makes the current populace so lily livered when our ancestors were so strong?

Its a common misconception newer generations have it easier. Both Aristotle and Plato bemoaned the generation after them as weak willed and lazy; apparently they wore shoes in the snow unlike their fathers.

So this perception has been around for millenia-literally.

Well on Aristotle and Plato the generations after them probably were--

As far as harder working generation wise. You and I probably have it harder in some ways. Family structure is very fractured these days, our grandparents only had to deal with 2 sets of in-laws there is no telling how many sets a person in our generation has to deal with. Most people 100 years ago grew up with 2 parents in the home--I did too--but it is becoming more and more common to see single parent households which is not ideal for childhood development. Our grandparents never dealt with the distractions of the internet and the constant barrage of information into our lives every second. So our generation has burdens to bear too.

But I gotta say my grandparents don't take nothing off of nobody and they are nobody's fools. They worked hard for what they have. I am still to this day afraid of my grandfather's hands. My great grandparents were a force to be reckoned with. You did not mess with them or their kids. If a agent of the federal gov't (TSA) tried to put their hands on any of their children that agent would have found himself with one less hand. They stood up to their community in south TX and insisted that the local black population needed education as well, and when the community would not/could not fund the education they educated the black farm children on their farm on their own dime. That is some stuff! I don't even know if I, their great granddaughter, would be able to do what these people did. So I gotta respect what they did and who they were.

[gunderwood]

Again, a misconception. Viewing the past as noble and moral, the present and future as corrupt and decadent.

Again using poor Aristotle and Plato, in their culture you would be very brave or very stupid to leave your son and/or horse unattended around groups of men. I need not go into detail why; what would have happened to them would have been A-OK culturally. You may even have joined in.

As for the Depression, I've seen some porn from the 20's-30's; you know, the previously lauded awesome morally upright Depression generation?

They did eeeeverything that happens now. People never change; just the technological mediums.

Fun fact, the motion picture was invented in 1895...first motion porn (photos are similarly as old as the camera) was made in 1896.

True, but an argument can be made about the pervasiveness of certain immoral activities. It's never zero and never 100%. Certainly there have been cultures worse than ours, but that shouldn't be justification for what we do.

Edit: You essentially commit the same error as the post you attempt to correct, but just the negation of it. The past, in of itself, is not better than the present. Nor is the present, in of itself, better than the past. Things have been good and bad in the past and I'm willing to bet that things will be both good and bad in the future. There certainly have been good historical cultural characteristics and principles that we should learn from IMHO. The lauding of those ideas shouldn't be rooted in the fact that they occurred in the past, but rather on the ideas themselves.

[dorminWS]

You know dorminWS it seems to me that our ancestors--heck even our grandparents were made of sterner stuff than we are. Why is that? Is it the vaccines? The air conditioning? The floride in our water? What makes the current populace so lily livered when our ancestors were so strong?

Its a common misconception newer generations have it easier. Both Aristotle and Plato bemoaned the generation after them as weak willed and lazy; apparently they wore shoes in the snow unlike their fathers.

So this perception has been around for millenia-literally.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No doubt the perception has been entertained for millenia. And there is also no doubt that as technology and society change, living gets easier over time. But it is not a linear function. It is a step function. several generations go by without any big change, and then something changes things a lot in a short time. I am probably better situated to have observed that than you by virtue of the fact that the vast changes brought about by post-World-War-II occurences came, in the the remotest parts of the appalachian mountains where I grew up and still live, at virtually the same time as the huge changes most of the nation enjoyed at or around the turn of the century. This is because things like the Tennessee Valley Authority and other "New Deal" programs as well as War-related development all occurred at virtually the same time for our isolated little enclaves. Many of my father's generation grew up without indoor plumbing or electricity. A few of my generation did; at least early on. What I talked about is not a mere perception, misconception, self-deception or affectation; and it's not some old codger claiming to have walked to school "barefooted in the snow and uphill both ways", or any other cliche. What I talked about is something I watched happen. I'll make one more observation you will probably hang a lot of cliches on: It doesn't all come from a book, Kreutz. In fact, it can't.