Why can't I own a ballistic knife?

davasmith · Post by **davasmith** » Thu, 20 Jan 2011 13:53:39

I know of the ballistic knife personally. My question is:

If I can conceal a weapon (and do legally), what is it that is so bad about owning and possessing a ballistic knife? I have never been able to justify their prohibition. I know there are a lot of ex&current police officers here, maybe someone can answer my question with an intelligent answer. Surely, a bullet propelled is more thought provoking than a blade propelled. Think about it, you can throw a knife with ferver and get the same result of a ballistic knife, IMHO.

Jakeiscrazy · Post by **Jakeiscrazy** » Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:32:25

There is know reason. It's a stupid law made with all the rest of the stupid knife laws.(all of them are stupid)

SgtBill · Post by **SgtBill** » Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:58:14

As a former LEO I have no ans. at all for you. I just don't know.
Bill

davasmith · Post by **davasmith** » Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:07:51

Jake I couldn't agree more with you.
Bill, your not the only LEO that doesn't know. I have researched the weapon from its infancy through the 1990's. The best understanding I have is that when the Spetsnaz broke with the fall of communism, the weapon was widely banned. I don't know why they would be banned here in the States though. They are simple spring compression mechanics, and they don't require a charge. Although, there are some that were modified to be expelled via a small charge. It's just another example of Uncle Sam taking our toys.
IMHO, Josh

davasmith · Post by **davasmith** » Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:14:15

I didn't put the specs in my earlier reply so here's the pertinent info:

U.S. Code
Title 15 >chapter >29 >~1245
subsections a, b, c, d.

Penalties are found in Title 18

Ten years for a knife, rediculous!

grumpyMSG · Post by **grumpyMSG** » Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:11:30

It is Speculation on my part, and Emphasize SPECULATION, but most Kevlar and other ballistic fabric vests do not stop knives, they will slow them down but they won't stop them. Perhaps it is because of the perceived threat. But, heck I could just be full of organic fertilizer...

Jakeiscrazy · Post by **Jakeiscrazy** » Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:52:35

As far as the ballistic knife itself goes, it's just a toy. I can't see it having any real purpose at all. Your best plan should never be to shoot your entire weapon across the room!

gunderwood · Post by **gunderwood** » Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:22:01

Most of the state prohibitions against certain knives is due to racism and wanting to keep certain ethnic groups disarmed (that's why they call them out by name). IIRC, they start up north. As for the Federal law, I think grumpy has a good speculation. In the end though, Jake is right, stupidity explains everything.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:52:23

The answer is simple. You are a peon and not a member of teh higher class of citizen, a LEO. They can drink while carrying and all manner of other special treats (carry on aircraft, lifetime CCW, out of state carry w/o a permit, etc.)

Ask nice and pay someone with pull and you too can have some of the rights the other US Americans have consistently endeavored to return to the state over the last 235 years.

WRW · Post by **WRW** » Thu, 20 Jan 2011 23:36:42

Jakeiscrazy wrote:As far as the ballistic knife itself goes, it's just a toy. I can't see it having any real purpose at all. Your best plan should never be to shoot your entire weapon across the room!

I wouldn't call it a toy. Reading up on it, it sounds like one of those items dreamed up by a supervisor in a well lit climate controlled room in the presence of co-workers to be used by field personnel in a dark, cold, possibly wet location while amongst enemies. Its bulk and weight take up the space of a switchblade plus an additional magazine that could be emptied prior to having to put the knife into service. If the battle was that heated, I don't think the ballistic knife and one less magazine is the best way to go.

Post by **zephyp** » Fri, 21 Jan 2011 06:33:18

Jakeiscrazy wrote:Your best plan should never be to shoot your entire weapon across the room!

+1

So right on that one unless you know for sure its all you need and I bet the reload aint quick...

gunderwood · Post by **gunderwood** » Fri, 21 Jan 2011 08:41:11

zephyp wrote:
Jakeiscrazy wrote:Your best plan should never be to shoot your entire weapon across the room!
+1 So right on that one unless you know for sure its all you need and I bet the reload aint quick...

Just grab the pointy end and push it back in. :p

rromeo · Post by **rromeo** » Fri, 21 Jan 2011 08:56:23

I would be happy if switchblades were legal in this state.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

davasmith · Post by **davasmith** » Fri, 21 Jan 2011 10:08:55

If you're in the know, ballistic knifes are primarily backup weapons. They are a great silent advantage when even a suppressor would alert, and are less cumbersome. They were first conceived in a wet lit, lonely closet in a cold climate atmosphere. They are an excellent second line of defense being, they can fully puncture 3/4 inch plywood at a distance of 25 feet. Most cqb's take place less than 15 feet. It frees up a hand for a pistol, or a grasp as well as being able to be shot at a good distance even for a pistol.

As for throwing the weapon away, you can use the handle as a cubiton for several self defense techniques.
( I hear..........shhhhhh....)

Kuda · Post by **Kuda** » Fri, 21 Jan 2011 10:37:57

rromeo wrote:I would be happy if switchblades were legal in this state.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

True, but the SOG "assisted opening" knives are great. I never leave home without my Flash II

rromeo · Post by **rromeo** » Fri, 21 Jan 2011 10:48:42

I had a beautiful Italian style 'blade that I bought years ago, then I was in California where they are illegal, so I was nervous and got rid of it. When I left Hell, I hoped I could get another, but nope.
Oh well.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

SgtBill · Post by **SgtBill** » Fri, 21 Jan 2011 11:09:48

Tweaker wrote:The answer is simple. You are a peon and not a member of teh higher class of citizen, a LEO. They can drink while carrying and all manner of other special treats (carry on aircraft, lifetime CCW, out of state carry w/o a permit, etc.)

Ask nice and pay someone with pull and you too can have some of the rights the other US Americans have consistently endeavored to return to the state over the last 235 years.

Here we go again. I don't nor have I ever conciderd myself a higher class citizen just because I was and am a retrired Law Enforcement Officer. As far as being able to drink while armed I have never seen any thing written down any where that states that a LEO can drink and carry at the same time or may not drink and carry at the same time. As I don't drink it never meant anything to me to worry about it. I have not carried on any aircraft. The one time that I took a weapon on a flight I had to place it in the hold with my baggage.

As far as the lifetime carry permit I EARNED IT as well as the out of state permit. I put my ass on the line for 25 years protecting the people in the state of New Jersey and anywhere else that I happend to be. Just because I may be out of state on a trip did not mean that I would not or could not get involved in a criminal matter and I assure you that I did and still will even tho I have been retired for over 15 year's.

I did not ask for any special privleage when I retired they were GIVEN to me.
Bill

WRW · Post by **WRW** » Fri, 21 Jan 2011 14:07:39

davasmith wrote:I didn't put the specs in my earlier reply so here's the pertinent info:

U.S. Code
Title 15 >chapter >29 >~1245
subsections a, b, c, d.

Penalties are found in Title 18

Ten years for a knife, rediculous!

OK, IANNNAL so take this for what it is worth. The code referenced concerns interstate transportation of switchblades and ballistic knives.

Virginia prohibits selling, giving, or bartering of such weapons, and mere possession is prima facie evidence of intent to do so.
Each State has it's own laws concerning ownership of these items.

dorminWS · Post by **dorminWS** » Fri, 21 Jan 2011 14:34:44

I never heard of one before. But after I ran a yahoo search on it, this strikes me as a dang good question.

First, who says the "arms" we have a constitutional right to keep and bear includes only FIREarms? At the time the constitution was drafted, knives were very much "arms" used in warfare - - - much more than now, I'm sure

Second, how is a ballistic knike significantly different from a speargun for fishing? Compressed gas propelling a blade with sufficient force to kill a large animal. The principle is also almost the same as a recurve, compount, or crossbow. Heck, a co2-powered ballistic knife may, in some ways, be a better self-defense choice than a gun for the counterperson at the local all-night convenience store. So what makes these ballistic knives so evil that possession is, in effect, illegal?

How did the Feds get away with that one? Probably because there was no special interest group that saw it as threatening to their immediate interests (the NRA, for instance, probably didn't worry because it wasn't a "firearm"), and also because it was something those "rooshuns" (as my pappy used to call them) made in their evil empire, so it must be bad and the sympathies were all wrong. When you think about it, this is a lot like outlawing a gun as "an assult weapon" because it has no varnished wood in the stock and forearm and looks more utilitarian than Poppa's semiato .30-.30 that has EXACTLY the same operational priciples and function.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Fri, 21 Jan 2011 17:29:02

SgtBill wrote:
Tweaker wrote:The answer is simple. You are a peon and not a member of teh higher class of citizen, a LEO. They can drink while carrying and all manner of other special treats (carry on aircraft, lifetime CCW, out of state carry w/o a permit, etc.)

Ask nice and pay someone with pull and you too can have some of the rights the other US Americans have consistently endeavored to return to the state over the last 235 years.
Here we go again. I don't nor have I ever conciderd myself a higher class citizen just because I was and am a retrired Law Enforcement Officer. As far as being able to drink while armed I have never seen any thing written down any where that states that a LEO can drink and carry at the same time or may not drink and carry at the same time. As I don't drink it never meant anything to me to worry about it. I have not carried on any aircraft. The one time that I took a weapon on a flight I had to place it in the hold with my baggage.

As far as the lifetime carry permit I EARNED IT as well as the out of state permit. I put my ass on the line for 25 years protecting the people in the state of New Jersey and anywhere else that I happend to be. Just because I may be out of state on a trip did not mean that I would not or could not get involved in a criminal matter and I assure you that I did and still will even tho I have been retired for over 15 year's.

I did not ask for any special privleage when I retired they were GIVEN to me.
Bill

Exceptions to drinking while in possession of firearms in very common in VA law. I am certain that you have heard of it. What you haven't heard is that your employer's policies permit you to drink. Why make the exception? I have no idea.

I DO NOT begrudge the line officer having any of the firearms rights they have. I empathize with the danger, difficulty and BS that goes along with the position. Do not mistake my comment for such, as I think you did. I am coming from this from the other direction: Why does a regular citizen (LEO's are just citizens too, but many forget) not have these rights? Rights are not earned, they are rights granted as consequence of citizenship, which you and I both are!

I have a problem with:
Statists who act to strip freedoms, rights and power from the individual and give it to the state and its state actors (you)
LEO's who pervert this increased power and freedoms, using them to trample the free citizens they are charged with protecting (uncommon, but not rare)

My thoughts after every crime that could have been lessened if not prevented by the actions of free men, had they the option of the tools the state actors possess are identical:
Mad @ the actions of the criminal
Mad @ the idiots who claim "laws" in a book somewhere can prevent real world violence
Sadness for the victims
Frustration that each time, the statist attempts to use as justification for more laws a situation which was a shining example of the failure of all of their previous laws!

Bill, you are one of the good guys, and I am always glad that you are in the majority of LEOs. I only wish that us lesser citizens could share some of the increased options and freedoms that you have, as both an active and retired LEO. Can you agree with that?

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