Myself and another VaGunOwnersForum asked to leave Walmart

[allingeneral]

WHat about this part of the code?

If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof

[Yarddawg]

They did not address the way we were treated by their employees so I have again emailed them.

Nor did they address the fact that you trespassed upon their private property after having been forbidden to do so.

How so? Va Code § 18.2-119:

If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen, or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.

He's not trespassing until he's served...

I think that you missed the first part(underlined above). As a property owner, I do not need to have you served, I only need to tell you to leave.

Edit: Rick beat me to it!

[dontcallmeradio]

ok , I am going to go out on a limb here, and say both, walking into a walmart store on christmas eve, and open carrying is a stupid thing to do...


You stated that you have a concealed permit, why not just go about your shopping quietly and inconspicuously?

I am guessing the store was probably packed with people completely stressed out from shopping madness at that stage of the holiday game...

somebody posted about open carrying and expecting a negative response from time to time and I agree, and you both were probably looking for that type of response when you made this poor decision.

You have to know how to pick your fights better.

Sir,

You are VERY wrong. I was the member that was with tacweapon in the Walmart, and I don’t have a CC permit, and that’s the way I like it. You're missing the point completely I wasn't, "fighting," anything. I'd like to know how exercising my 2A right is a, "poor" decision. There is all the more reason to carry my pistol with the "completely stressed shoppers" that happened to be packed in the Walmart at 7 AM.

OC is not about causing a ruckus for me, it’s about comfort and not having to change my lifestyle to fit a pistol in my pants. My gun isn't "Cool" it’s not a "fad" it’s not about getting a rise out of folks. My pistol is a tool, nothing more, nothing less; it’s the same as wearing a knife or flashlight. I'd appreciate you not bashing tacweapon or myself and telling us we made a bad decision. If that’s the case then every single day, we make that same bad decision.

Tacweapon and I are both public safety employees, (civilians) with plenty of training and background in firearms and firearms safe handling. I myself am a certified NRA rifle and pistol instructor for youth. I realize that the GP don’t know that, all they see is a guy with a gun, but in the same breath, if they were to ask me any questions about the legality of OC I am always willing to educate people that don't know, because that's what it's all about.

Virginia is such a great state to live in because of the freedoms we are afforded. The GP should realize that the good guys carry theirs in holsters and they should be more afraid of the ones that they can’t see, than the ones they can.

As for you, GS78 I hope you're aware of what was sacrificed so that you can use the internet to post your prick-like responses to the plights of real Americans. Honestly, where do you get off?


Dontcallmeradio

[t33j]

Happen to be very close to this Walmart ATM... will probably give it a visit OCing as I always do.

I also suggest posting this to OCDO.

PS: All this talk about the 2A when we should be referencing Article I, Section 13 of the Virginia Constitution. 2A didn't become as significant until June 28th of this year.

[GS78]

.

I am guessing the store was probably packed with people completely stressed out from shopping madness at that stage of the holiday game...

+1

Exactly why I won't be going there without a gun.

somebody posted about open carrying and expecting a negative response from time to time and I agree, and you both were probably looking for that type of response when you made this poor decision.

I've OCed and I wasn't looking for any response. I just wanted to go about my lawful business.

You have to know how to pick your fights better.

Have you ever considered that everyone is not as angry and aggressive as you? I.e. they don't do things to pick fights.

True Dat.

The simple fact is that the general PUBLIC, who had probably packed that and every other WalMart store that evening, has been overwhelmed by the media , with the help of mental cases who have used guns for senseless violence in the recent past, with exclusive video and endless stories about the upsurge in armed robberies and the like especially around the holidays "when depressed people and desperate "less fortunate" armed citizens are inclined to SNAP etc....



when I said "pick your fights better" I assumed most here would know that was figurative, not literal. Anyone who seriously believes that by strapping on your six shooter and walking boldly into a greeters face and say "WHY NOT?" in a crowded Walmart store on Christmas EVE is not confrontational isn't thinking clearly. First your indiviual rights are extremely outweighed by a World wide private corporation, it isn't a Mr.Smith goes to Washington moment.

Second, what day would be better for any anti christian kook with a gun to exercise his own personal Jihad on a crowded store on a Christian Holiday.(again this is NOT from my perspective, but from a frightened and brainwashed citizenry.Poll after poll show that MOST people want to feel secure, even at the expense of personal liberty.Thats just a fact of life.)

Thirdly, and thankfully lastly, In the original post I understood that neither man carries a weapon as part of his employ. That would mean that since they decided to go to Walmart on Christmas eve to finish their shopping(whatever) they did make the extra effort to equip themselves with their firearms on purpose, and to make a point ;to walmart and its employees and the general public, that being it is MY RIGHT to walk around this store like Wyatt Erp. Well they found out it is NOT their right to do so, and then they , or at least one of these valiant second ammendment soldiers called for a FREAKIN BOYCOTT of walmart?!

Excuse me but in my humble opinion, the second ammendment crowd needs this kind of representatives the same way the church needs a Swagart or Phelps as a spokesman.

[tursiops]

I usually do not agree with GS78's posts, but I think he is right on with this one.

The shrill "but it is my right!" is not very compelling to me. You can boldly walk out into a cross-walk in front of a red-light-running truck and be absolutely right, and absolutely dead.

Where is the situational awareness? Isn't that part of what we are about? Aren't we taught to avoid the fight while we are carrying? Cross the street to the side away from the gang of loud bullies? How is this different? A whole store full of bullies....including the manager, who is within his rights, by the way.

OC there, initially, is not wrong, but it doesn't fit the situational awareness, and it is therefore a really bad idea.

The going back in CC is just plain wrong. And wrong is always a really bad idea.

[Jakeiscrazy]

I usually do not agree with GS78's posts, but I think he is right on with this one.

The shrill "but it is my right!" is not very compelling to me. You can boldly walk out into a cross-walk in front of a red-light-running truck and be absolutely right, and absolutely dead.

Where is the situational awareness? Isn't that part of what we are about? Aren't we taught to avoid the fight while we are carrying? Cross the street to the side away from the gang of loud bullies? How is this different? A whole store full of bullies....including the manager, who is within his rights, by the way.

OC there, initially, is not wrong, but it doesn't fit the situational awareness, and it is therefore a really bad idea.

The going back in CC is just plain wrong. And wrong is always a really bad idea.

I disagree, for one OC often deters crime so I would hardly say he was looking for a fight. If someone wants to start a fight with someone they don't want to pick with the guy/guys that are armed to the teeth with fullsize guns.
Here is an instance of it happening:http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlanta- ... n-Kennesaw

Furthermore when you OC you have the chance educate people, to show that carrying and gun is legal and can be done most places. Also than it isn't done by nuts with tinfoil hats. You represent the firearms community. If no ones OCs we could end up with a world that doesn't even know you they CC. Next thing you know your paranoid about your gun printing because if anyone sees it they are going to flip and call the police. Just having that handgun displayed openly shows others than it is common to carry a gun. Without people OCing, CC will go down hill. A right not exercised is a right lost.

I don't see how whether you OC or CC has anything to do with your awareness level. Whether you carry a gun or not doesn't change your awareness level.

However I do think concealing to reenter was a poor choice.

[gunderwood]

I usually do not agree with GS78's posts, but I think he is right on with this one.

The shrill "but it is my right!" is not very compelling to me. You can boldly walk out into a cross-walk in front of a red-light-running truck and be absolutely right, and absolutely dead.

They didn't strap a gun on for the express purpose of going to Walmart to pick a fight or to get kicked out. They apparently OC all the time and Walmart just happened to be on the list of places they wanted to go. There is a difference.

I put on a pistol (CC mind you) and a pocket knife because I do that every day I can. I happened go to a mall today. Your analogy is wrong because you are still presuming heading toward danger. Again, if they OCed to pick a fight I wouldn't support them because we don't need that, but they claim they didn't. I have no problem with OC, think it is a good idea for society to allow and don't think anyone should be harassed because of it.

Where is the situational awareness? Isn't that part of what we are about? Aren't we taught to avoid the fight while we are carrying? Cross the street to the side away from the gang of loud bullies? How is this different? A whole store full of bullies....including the manager, who is within his rights, by the way.

Again, you're presuming these guys strapped on a gun to head into danger. Walmart has a policy of respecting the local laws, so how is OC in VA like your example? I'll give you a hint, it isn't.

OC there, initially, is not wrong, but it doesn't fit the situational awareness, and it is therefore a really bad idea.

Please tell me how it isn't situationally aware to OC in a store which is widely known to have policy which respects the local laws and the local laws allow OC?

The going back in CC is just plain wrong. And wrong is always a really bad idea.

Agreed. However, turning that manager into Walmart for violating their stated corporate policy and harassing law abiding customers is not.


GS78s real problem is he hates OC period. He is against it in any case for any reason or at least that is what he has argued in the past IIRC. He waits until someone has a problem and then decides to throw stones and say I told you so about OCing. Of course he ignores the thousands of people who do it everyday with no problem.

[gunderwood]

If no ones OCs we could end up with a world that doesn't even know you they CC. Next thing you know your paranoid about your gun printing because if anyone sees it they are going to flip and call the police. Just having that handgun displayed openly shows others than it is common to carry a gun. Without people OCing, CC will go down hill. A right not exercised is a right lost.

This is a great point. This is exactly what has happened in those liberal states which don't allow OC. If your gun prints it is a crime in some states. That isn't a place I want to live in.

[ProShooter]

[quote="ProShooterHow so? Va Code § 18.2-119:

If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen, or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.

He's not trespassing until he's served...

I think that you missed the first part(underlined above). As a property owner, I do not need to have you served, I only need to tell you to leave.

Edit: Rick beat me to it!

Thank you guys for posting the correct response. I haven't had a chance to get back to this thread.

As stated, once the store manager told the OP to leave, going back in became trespassing. Remember that trespassing is a Class 1 misdemeanor and they have 365 days to file a warrant. Tread lightly.

[Yarddawg]

I have heard it said many times in the past, and I agree wholeheartedly, "Do not fear the gun that you can see, fear the ones that you cannot see".

It is a personal choice whether to open carry or concealed carry. As I do not have my CHP yet, when I do carry, it is obviously open carry.

I would venture to say that those that OC, are some of the most law abiding citizens you will ever meet. They realize that they will be scrutinized more simply because they are carrying openly.

Those that legally carry concealed are every bit as law abiding as those that OC. The difference being that these people have an acknowledgment from the state that granted their permit that they are law abiding citizens that submitted to background checks, education of gun laws, etc.

Those that illegally carry concealed, well what can I say? These are the ones that EVERYONE should be worried about! These are the ones that bring trouble to everyone around them, and need to be separated from society by any means necessary!

[GS78]

I usually do not agree with GS78's posts, but I think he is right on with this one.

The shrill "but it is my right!" is not very compelling to me. You can boldly walk out into a cross-walk in front of a red-light-running truck and be absolutely right, and absolutely dead.

They didn't strap a gun on for the express purpose of going to Walmart to pick a fight or to get kicked out. They apparently OC all the time and Walmart just happened to be on the list of places they wanted to go. There is a difference.

They had concealed permits, it was a busy holiday in the WINTER time when most people were wearing heavy coats etc...and these two had to have visible weapons showing ...for what reason? .....to prove THEY HAD A RIGHT...nothing more.

I put on a pistol (CC mind you) and a pocket knife because I do that every day I can. I happened go to a mall today. What relevance does this have? NONE.





Your analogy is wrong because you are still presuming heading toward danger. Again, if they OCed to pick a fight I wouldn't support them because we don't need that, but they claim they didn't. I have no problem with OC, think it is a good idea for society to allow and don't think anyone should be harassed because of it.

Where is the situational awareness? Isn't that part of what we are about? Aren't we taught to avoid the fight while we are carrying? Cross the street to the side away from the gang of loud bullies? How is this different? A whole store full of bullies....including the manager, who is within his rights, by the way.

Again, you're presuming these guys strapped on a gun to head into danger. Walmart has a policy of respecting the local laws, so how is OC in VA like your example? I'll give you a hint, it isn't.

OC there, initially, is not wrong, but it doesn't fit the situational awareness, and it is therefore a really bad idea.

Please tell me how it isn't situationally aware to OC in a store which is widely known to have policy which respects the local laws and the local laws allow OC?

The going back in CC is just plain wrong. And wrong is always a really bad idea.

Agreed. However, turning that manager into Walmart for violating their stated corporate policy and harassing law abiding customers is not.


GS78s real problem is he hates OC period. He is against it in any case for any reason or at least that is what he has argued in the past IIRC. He waits until someone has a problem and then decides to throw stones and say I told you so about OCing. Of course he ignores the thousands of people who do it everyday with no problem.

OK prove your statement. PROVE how I am anti open carry. Otherwise, you prove your own ignorance. I have consistantly said I stand behind EVERY private owner of any establishment who does not want guns on his property. Thats not even close to being "anti-open carry". I expect you understand the difference.

You made a statement about my position on open carry. I expect you can back it up with credible. I will await your proof with baited breath.

[GS78]

ok , I am going to go out on a limb here, and say both, walking into a walmart store on christmas eve, and open carrying is a stupid thing to do...


You stated that you have a concealed permit, why not just go about your shopping quietly and inconspicuously?

I am guessing the store was probably packed with people completely stressed out from shopping madness at that stage of the holiday game...

somebody posted about open carrying and expecting a negative response from time to time and I agree, and you both were probably looking for that type of response when you made this poor decision.

You have to know how to pick your fights better.

Sir,

You are VERY wrong. I was the member that was with tacweapon in the Walmart, and I don’t have a CC permit, and that’s the way I like it. You're missing the point completely I wasn't, "fighting," anything. I'd like to know how exercising my 2A right is a, "poor" decision. There is all the more reason to carry my pistol with the "completely stressed shoppers" that happened to be packed in the Walmart at 7 AM.

OC is not about causing a ruckus for me, it’s about comfort and not having to change my lifestyle to fit a pistol in my pants. My gun isn't "Cool" it’s not a "fad" it’s not about getting a rise out of folks. My pistol is a tool, nothing more, nothing less; it’s the same as wearing a knife or flashlight. I'd appreciate you not bashing tacweapon or myself and telling us we made a bad decision. If that’s the case then every single day, we make that same bad decision.

Tacweapon and I are both public safety employees, (civilians) with plenty of training and background in firearms and firearms safe handling. I myself am a certified NRA rifle and pistol instructor for youth. I realize that the GP don’t know that, all they see is a guy with a gun, but in the same breath, if they were to ask me any questions about the legality of OC I am always willing to educate people that don't know, because that's what it's all about.

Virginia is such a great state to live in because of the freedoms we are afforded. The GP should realize that the good guys carry theirs in holsters and they should be more afraid of the ones that they can’t see, than the ones they can.

As for you, GS78 I hope you're aware of what was sacrificed so that you can use the internet to post your prick-like responses to the plights of real Americans. Honestly, where do you get off?


Dontcallmeradio

I will allow most of youir idiotic response go unanswered only because you already look like a fool. If you indeed had so much "training" you would have known it was a foolhardy thing to enter into that store open carrying in the first place. It was cold out right? what were you wearing? a t-shirt? nope, .most likely a winter coat, but you had to expose your weapon, why is that? ask yourself, because I really dont care.

..as for the sacrifice bullsh*t part of your petty response I will only add that if you knew you would be apologizing to me already. I stand by my statement that walking into a walmart on christmas eve, in COLS weather while everyone else is wearing a heavy covering, YOU IDIOTS had to have your weapons showing for what purpose? EVERYONE ELSE in the store had heavy coats and clothes on but you two "Highly trained NRA childrens instructors" had to prove to the WALMART CROWD that YOU were ALLOWED to CARRY GUNS....end of pathetic story.

[GS78]

[
As stated, once the store manager told the OP to leave, going back in became trespassing. Remember that trespassing is a Class 1 misdemeanor and they have 365 days to file a warrant. Tread lightly.

This is precisely my point, and for all of the blathering we hear on this and other sites about "our gun rights" , the fact is that if behave like idiots and are ignorant of the LAW, and we have idiots representing our position, in the eyes and minds of the general public we are all idiots. Simpletons riding around with shotguns in the back window of the pick-up, which is exactly the appearance the national media is more than happy to report about us.

[t33j]

If you indeed had so much "training" you would have known it was a foolhardy thing to enter into that store open carrying in the first place. It was cold out right? what were you wearing? a t-shirt? nope, .most likely a winter coat, but you had to expose your weapon, why is that?

Maybe he didn't want to ask his government for permission to do something that should be a right. Maybe he can't CC. I OCed every day for 2 winters with big coats when I was 19-20. Perhaps he wasn't even wearing a coat at all; the trip from the heated car to a heated store is a short one.

OCing is hardly a tactical disadvantage. The vast majority of criminals aren't looking to get in a gunfight. There are plenty of documented circumstances where an openly carried firearm has prevented a crime from happening, and certainly many more that aren't documented.

I think we are all agreed that the OP should not have reentered the store armed (that is to say, not at all - keep your gun, go home and file a complaint).

..as for the sacrifice bullsh*t part of your petty response I will only add that if you knew you would be apologizing to me already. I stand by my statement that walking into a walmart on christmas eve, in COLS weather while everyone else is wearing a heavy covering, YOU IDIOTS had to have your weapons showing for what purpose? EVERYONE ELSE in the store had heavy coats and clothes on but you two "Highly trained NRA childrens instructors" had to prove to the WALMART CROWD that YOU were ALLOWED to CARRY GUNS....end of pathetic story.

Right, so does this forum have a block user feature??

[gunderwood]

Fixing your quotes...

I usually do not agree with GS78's posts, but I think he is right on with this one.

The shrill "but it is my right!" is not very compelling to me. You can boldly walk out into a cross-walk in front of a red-light-running truck and be absolutely right, and absolutely dead.

They didn't strap a gun on for the express purpose of going to Walmart to pick a fight or to get kicked out. They apparently OC all the time and Walmart just happened to be on the list of places they wanted to go. There is a difference.

They had concealed permits, it was a busy holiday in the WINTER time when most people were wearing heavy coats etc...and these two had to have visible weapons showing ...for what reason? .....to prove THEY HAD A RIGHT...nothing more.

No, only one had a CC permit and it is none of your business if they did or didn't. Since your anger is blinding you to the text of what was actually posted, I repost it here for you:

You are VERY wrong. I was the member that was with tacweapon in the Walmart, and I don’t have a CC permit, and that’s the way I like it.

I put on a pistol (CC mind you) and a pocket knife because I do that every day I can. I happened go to a mall today.

What relevance does this have? NONE.

It is relevant because you are making an unfounded claim about "picking a fight" or "proving a point." They weren't. They were doing what the rest of us do, put a firearm on for SD and carry it in a manner in which we are comfortable.


Bunch of random fragments of a quote...DELETED!

GS78s real problem is he hates OC period. He is against it in any case for any reason or at least that is what he has argued in the past IIRC. He waits until someone has a problem and then decides to throw stones and say I told you so about OCing. Of course he ignores the thousands of people who do it everyday with no problem.

OK prove your statement. PROVE how I am anti open carry. Otherwise, you prove your own ignorance. I have consistantly said I stand behind EVERY private owner of any establishment who does not want guns on his property. Thats not even close to being "anti-open carry". I expect you understand the difference.

You made a statement about my position on open carry. I expect you can back it up with credible. I will await your proof with baited breath.

I point you to any post you have made in this thread as proof. You read motive into their action based on your own bias. This is not the first discussion where you have posted similar rants, insulting tone and all. In case you have forgotten already:

ok , I am going to go out on a limb here, and say both, walking into a walmart store on christmas eve, and open carrying is a stupid thing to do..

You were asked and so far have ignored how walking into a store which has a widely publicized policy of following state laws, including the letter they replied with, by two guys who usually open carry is a "stupid" idea. It's your bias because you don't care for it and nothing else.



Edit: I deem this to be the pro-OC quote of the day from GS78:

I will allow most of youir idiotic response go unanswered only because you already look like a fool. If you indeed had so much "training" you would have known it was a foolhardy thing to enter into that store open carrying in the first place.

Yup, your an advocate of OC and aren't biased against it in any way...

[gunderwood]

[
As stated, once the store manager told the OP to leave, going back in became trespassing. Remember that trespassing is a Class 1 misdemeanor and they have 365 days to file a warrant. Tread lightly.

This is precisely my point, and for all of the blathering we hear on this and other sites about "our gun rights" , the fact is that if behave like idiots and are ignorant of the LAW, and we have idiots representing our position, in the eyes and minds of the general public we are all idiots. Simpletons riding around with shotguns in the back window of the pick-up, which is exactly the appearance the national media is more than happy to report about us.

The law is they can OC. Walmart's stated policy, before this incident and even after as noted in the Walmart reply, is that they respect the local laws. To say it was a stupid idea to OC in a store where it is widely known to be generally OK is ignorant.

I'm all for property rights and if Walmart wishes to eject certain people, for any reason, they can do that. If they want to change their policy that is also their business. The point is that their policy allowed it, the state laws allowed it, and these two gentlemen choose to do so. Up until the point they were told to leave, there actions were legal and reasonable based on all available knowledge.

You may not like their actions, but just in case you didn't get the word, the world doesn't revolve around you.

[GS78]

If you indeed had so much "training" you would have known it was a foolhardy thing to enter into that store open carrying in the first place. It was cold out right? what were you wearing? a t-shirt? nope, .most likely a winter coat, but you had to expose your weapon, why is that?

Maybe he didn't want to ask his government for permission to do something that should be a right. Maybe he can't CC. I OCed every day for 2 winters with big coats when I was 19-20. Perhaps he wasn't even wearing a coat at all; the trip from the heated car to a heated store is a short one.

OCing is hardly a tactical disadvantage. The vast majority of criminals aren't looking to get in a gunfight. There are plenty of documented circumstances where an openly carried firearm has prevented a crime from happening, and certainly many more that aren't documented.

I think we are all agreed that the OP should not have reentered the store armed (that is to say, not at all - keep your gun, go home and file a complaint).

..as for the sacrifice bullsh*t part of your petty response I will only add that if you knew you would be apologizing to me already. I stand by my statement that walking into a walmart on christmas eve, in COLS weather while everyone else is wearing a heavy covering, YOU IDIOTS had to have your weapons showing for what purpose? EVERYONE ELSE in the store had heavy coats and clothes on but you two "Highly trained NRA childrens instructors" had to prove to the WALMART CROWD that YOU were ALLOWED to CARRY GUNS....end of pathetic story.

Right, so does this forum have a block user feature??

I don't know, its not a chat room, so probably not. I am not your problem, you are. Ask yourself, did your actions that christmas eve have positive or negative effect on gun owners? Nevermind the legality or your interpetation of law, what did the general public, the door greeter and the manager of that walmart think of you and your friend? and will they all be more or less willing to express an attitude of understanding to the next person who wnats to OPEN CARRY? or did your actions actually hurt the next guys chances? Nevermind the cheerleaders on this site, the real question is how much did you do to advance the positive perception of gun owners in this situation?

[GS78]

I usually do not agree with GS78's posts, but I think he is right on with this one.

The shrill "but it is my right!" is not very compelling to me. You can boldly walk out into a cross-walk in front of a red-light-running truck and be absolutely right, and absolutely dead.

Where is the situational awareness? Isn't that part of what we are about? Aren't we taught to avoid the fight while we are carrying? Cross the street to the side away from the gang of loud bullies? How is this different? A whole store full of bullies....including the manager, who is within his rights, by the way.

OC there, initially, is not wrong, but it doesn't fit the situational awareness, and it is therefore a really bad idea.

The going back in CC is just plain wrong. And wrong is always a really bad idea.

I disagree, for one OC often deters crime so I would hardly say he was looking for a fight. If someone wants to start a fight with someone they don't want to pick with the guy/guys that are armed to the teeth with fullsize guns.
Here is an instance of it happening:http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlanta- ... n-Kennesaw

Furthermore when you OC you have the chance educate people, to show that carrying and gun is legal and can be done most places. Also than it isn't done by nuts with tinfoil hats. You represent the firearms community. If no ones OCs we could end up with a world that doesn't even know you they CC. Next thing you know your paranoid about your gun printing because if anyone sees it they are going to flip and call the police. Just having that handgun displayed openly shows others than it is common to carry a gun. Without people OCing, CC will go down hill. A right not exercised is a right lost.

I don't see how whether you OC or CC has anything to do with your awareness level. Whether you carry a gun or not doesn't change your awareness level.

However I do think concealing to reenter was a poor choice.

I couldn't agree more that whether or not you are carrying a gun, your awareness level should not be affected by weapon availability.

[gunderwood]

If you indeed had so much "training" you would have known it was a foolhardy thing to enter into that store open carrying in the first place. It was cold out right? what were you wearing? a t-shirt? nope, .most likely a winter coat, but you had to expose your weapon, why is that?

Maybe he didn't want to ask his government for permission to do something that should be a right. Maybe he can't CC. I OCed every day for 2 winters with big coats when I was 19-20. Perhaps he wasn't even wearing a coat at all; the trip from the heated car to a heated store is a short one.

OCing is hardly a tactical disadvantage. The vast majority of criminals aren't looking to get in a gunfight. There are plenty of documented circumstances where an openly carried firearm has prevented a crime from happening, and certainly many more that aren't documented.

I think we are all agreed that the OP should not have reentered the store armed (that is to say, not at all - keep your gun, go home and file a complaint).

..as for the sacrifice bullsh*t part of your petty response I will only add that if you knew you would be apologizing to me already. I stand by my statement that walking into a walmart on christmas eve, in COLS weather while everyone else is wearing a heavy covering, YOU IDIOTS had to have your weapons showing for what purpose? EVERYONE ELSE in the store had heavy coats and clothes on but you two "Highly trained NRA childrens instructors" had to prove to the WALMART CROWD that YOU were ALLOWED to CARRY GUNS....end of pathetic story.

Right, so does this forum have a block user feature??

I don't know, its not a chat room, so probably not. I am not your problem, you are. Ask yourself, did your actions that christmas eve have positive or negative effect on gun owners? Nevermind the legality or your interpetation of law, what did the general public, the door greeter and the manager of that walmart think of you and your friend? and will they all be more or less willing to express an attitude of understanding to the next person who wnats to OPEN CARRY? or did your actions actually hurt the next guys chances? Nevermind the cheerleaders on this site, the real question is how much did you do to advance the positive perception of gun owners in this situation?

Let me fix it for you:

Ask yourself, did your actions in this thread have positive or negative effect on gun owners?

How is the next guy to have a chance when OCing in any store is a "stupid" idea? How were they to know ahead of time that the Walmart manager and greeter would react as such so as to cause a negative perception of gun owners?

There are people who hate guns period, open, concealed, used for hunting, or even the fact that citizens can own them period. They are ignorant and I don't run my life according to their bigotry and I don't recommend anyone else worry about it either.

I've got a great idea. How about you turn in all your guns because the Brady people and the like hate the fact you have them. How do you think your owning firearms is impacting the view of us to those people? I think it is a stupid idea that you own guns because you offend Sarah Brady...

Kind of a stupid line of reasoning isn't it?


/sarcasm