1st amendment rights violated--Richmond Coliseum

[Bobtail1911]

1st amendment rights violated.

Some guy gave me a sticker to wear, with a message that I agreed with. Something like "Guns Save Lives."

The door people thugs would not let you enter the facility without removing said sticker during the Glen Beck Comedy Tour Concert. Does Glen Know about this? I wonder?

[TheWife]

WOW! A STICKER???
I wonder if you had a shirt on that said something crude if they would have let you in...I'm sure they would!

[VBshooter]

Were these Coliseum thugs or private thugs? May be worth looking into and getting a little legal action going. Hard to figure what the issue would be on a sticker,,, Hell ,,Glenn is one of the best supporters of the Constitution out there.

[OakRidgeStars]

Here's the full text of the incident from the VA Alert email:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
VCDL's meeting schedule: http://www.vcdl.org/meetings.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Abbreviations used in VA-ALERT: http://www.vcdl.org/help/abbr.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Richmond Coliseum Bans VCDL Stickers!
2. VCDL's Newport News Picnic a success. Attorney General candidate
Ken Cuccinelli dropped by, too.
3. Gun Poll in Parade magazine

*********************************************************
1. Richmond Coliseum Bans VCDL Stickers!
*********************************************************

Last night talk show host Glenn Beck was at the Richmond Coliseum.
Many VCDL members were in attendance. (Dennis O'Connor, Bruce
Jackson, and I were at the VCDL picnic and couldn't attend.)

The good news is that there were NO problems with law-abiding gun
owners carrying their handguns to the show. Handguns were carried
concealed and openly.

VCDL members Dale Welch and Paul Henick handed out **851** VCDL "Guns
Save Lives" stickers outside the Coliseum and sent me detailed reports
of what followed.

Like heat-seeking missiles, attendees were finding Dale and Paul to
get one of those stickers and were proudly putting them on.

The bad news is that the message on those stickers got the attention
of the Coliseum staff, who, with the Richmond Police in tow, came out
to confront Dale and Paul. They created a new rule out of whole cloth
that said stickers were not allowed in the Coliseum.

In the end, the Richmond PD and the Coliseum staff gave up because
every attempt to intimidate Dale and Paul failed, as both were legally
on public property and exercising their First Amendment rights. AND,
people WANTED those stickers.

Unable to get Dale and Paul to cave in, the Coliseum staff decided to
go after easier prey. They told people trying to get in that they
would not be allowed entrance unless they got rid of those stickers!!!

Many complied and went in, not sure if the Coliseum could indeed block
their entry legally.

Dale estimates about 1 in 10 of those with stickers took them off.
The rest had either gone in earlier or had simply ignored the demands
to take the stickers off. (Good for them!)

Interestingly, another group, "We Surround Them, Richmond" handed out
their literature without a single problem from staff or the police.

Gun owners targeted for special treatment? Gee-Whiz, I'm shocked!

How very, very foolish of the Richmond Coliseum management. They have
just stirred up a hornet's nest. If they had just left Paul and Dale
alone, people would have enjoyed Glenn Beck (who is a strong Second
Amendment supporter) and that would have been the end of it.

But they have angered lots of attendees, who did not want to give up
their stickers and they have angered VCDL.

When I told VCDL Board member Dennis O'Connor about the incident, his
reaction was, "How DARE they do THAT!? Would they have done that if
those had been Obama stickers instead of 'Guns Save Lives?'"

I think we know the answer to that, of course.

I plan on contacting Glenn Beck and let him know what transpired.

For those wanting more details, here are Paul and Dale's reports.
Hats off to both of them:

--

Paul's report:

While we were not actually mobbed by people wanting stickers, they
were hunting us down and looking for the stickers. When you see
someone from about 20 yards out zeroing in on you with a determined
look in their eyes, it is wonderful to see they are smiling at you.
From about 6:30 PM till maybe 7:40 PM we could not give out stickers
fast enough.

The RPD presence consisted of about 3 officers each on the 5th & 7th
Street sides, and maybe another 3 or 4 inside the front entrance
area. I could not see if there were any others inside or at the Leigh
Street side. There were no fleets of squadcars and motorcycles like
at the RPV Convention. I got a few pictures before my camera
batteries went dead on me.

The fun actually started about 6:45 PM when a few folks in white
shirts from SMG Inc. came out and tried to tell me I could not pass
out stickers. After asking if they were saying I could not exercise
my First Amendment right to political speech on public property, and
getting them to stop trying to tell me the Coliseum was "private
property" and the public park was "over there past the steps," they
tried the tactic of telling me I could not pass out stickers because
the people might bring them inside, take them off, and leave them on
the seats or floor or walls. These white-shirted individuals, along
with some SMG Inc. folks in blue polos, would not answer me when I
asked if they were going to hold me responsible for what other people
did with the stickers. The final attempt on their part was to say I
could not pass out stickers because the stickers would not be allowed
inside the Coliseum. I asked if they were saying I was bringing
stickers inside the Coliseum, but they refused to answer and brought
the Richmond Police Dept. into the conversation.

The cops told me that the "Coliseum people" did not want me passing
out stickers. I asked if I was being told to leave public property,
and if so under what authority I was being told to leave. That got
the cops all confused, so they repeated that the "Coliseum people" did
not want stickers passed out. I asked the cops (a female corporal
with a rocker and a male patrolman) if they were telling me I could
not exercise my First Amendment right to political speech on public
property. The response was that they really did not know what the law
was but that the "Coliseum people" did not want stickers passed out.
We went round and round till a Captain was called over, who after
getting nowhere with me suggested that I pass out stickers with the
backing still on. I told the Captain that I feared I might then be
accused of littering if the people who took the stickers dropped the
backing paper on the ground, just as I was told by SMG Inc. folks I
was considered responsible if people went inside with stickers and
then took them off and stuck them to the seats or floors or walls.

The Richmond Police contingent (Captain, corporal, patrolman) seemed
to give up at about that point as I was not going to let them direct
the conversation and they seemed fresh out of ideas of how to get me
to stop passing out stickers.

One of the blue polo shirts from SMG Inc. then came over and asked if
he could talk with me "over there [some distance from the crowd]."
When I asked him if there was something that prevented him from
talking with me "over here [where I was passing out stickers]" he
threw up his hands and walked away.

While all this was going on Dale & Diane were passing out stickers
like gangbusters.

Dale got a chance to see some of the SMG Inc. and Coliseum staff
searching purses for contraband, He also talked with some of the
Coliseum staff that we had met last weekend at the RPV Convention. It
seems that as long as they did not have to deal with me they were fine
talking with Dale. If only they knew the Mutt & Jeff routine being
played on them!

SMG Inc. did force people to take off the stickers and put them in a
trash can before they entered. Even from where I was outside the
entrance I could hear folks telling the SMG Inc. employees what they
thought of the rule, and a few asking where it was posted that people
could not come in wearing stickers, or why stickers were being
disallowed wholesale instead of dealing with the few who might litter.

In spite of the short time folks were allowed to keep their stickers
on, it seems that the expense of printing up the stickers was well
worth it. People had heard us talking with the SMG Inc. employees and
RPD about the Coliseum being public property, and some seemed
downright upset at the pettiness of the no-sticker rule. Others
carried that past the no-sticker issue to petty tyranny of public
officials in general. (It's great when PO'd people cluster at the
entrance and talk in loud voices before actually going inside!)

--

Dale's report:

Paul, Diane and I met up at 6:30 PM to pass out GSL stickers.

WOW - what a warm, enthusiastic reception we got! 851 orange stickers
were passed out to people who literally mobbed us at times [PVC: Dale
knows the amount passed out because I had given him a new roll, which
has exactly 1,000 stickers on it] - they stood 4 and 5 deep, young,
old, in patriotic tee shirts and suits, women and couples. They
thanked us for being there and promoting the cause. You could
literally feel the strong, positive vibes.

Were there any problems? Let us say that the Coliseum management and
Richmond PD tried to intimidate and drive us away. First, we were
told we could not be distributing those (GSL stickers) on the property
and would have to leave. Wrong answer said we - it is city owned/
public property.

LEOs called over headed up by a Captain. Preemption, public ownership
explained. Noted several of the officers were from the RPV convention
group. Much discussion but no willingness on Richmond PD's part to
persue actually ordering us to leave or arresting us.

A Mgt. supervisor attempted to stop us from taking pictures - put his
hand in front of my cell camera & said he would sue us if we took his
picture. We continued taking pictures.

We were then told that we could not pass the stickers out at all as
they did not want them stuck to the seats and walls. Paul replied
that what the patrons did with them was their (patrons) business - we
were only exercising our 1st Amendment rights.

The Mgt. and Richmond PD backed off and huddled - then disappeared.
They then made the announcement that the stickers would not be
permitted inside & would have to be put in trash cans before the
patrons could enter. Best guess is that happened to maybe 10% of the
people - the rest went in with them. Those that were "required" to
remove them, were incensed and upset. You can't buy this type of
positive reinforcement - compliments of the Coliseum management.

At no time was there any question or issue with legal carry of guns -
the 3 of us were OCing and I know from conversations that a number of
patrons were CCing - they had read or heard of the policy change.

I witnessed a number of IMO illegal pat down searches by event staff.

IMHO - what they (Mgt. staff) were trying to stop was any promotion/
information regarding the legal carry of guns in the Coliseum by
attempting to restrict the peoples rights under the 1st Amendment.
The "trash" created by the stickers was the excuse tonight - this in
spite of the volume of stickers passed out by delegates at the RPV
convention. Where is the difference? OK for them but not for us.

All in all a great (beyond expectations) night + no one detained or
arrested for legal activities.

Dinner at the 3rd Street Diner afterwards was a mini repeat
performance - Diane educated the manager of the legality of OC
utilizing VCDL info card and we had a group discussion with patrons
and staff (five of them) at our table about gun laws, VCDL and 1st &
2nd Amend issues - very positive and exciting night.

*********************************************************
2. VCDL's Newport News Picnic a success. Attorney General candidate
Ken Cuccinelli dropped by, too.
*********************************************************

VCDL had over 80 gun owners attending yesterday's picnic in Newport
News (same location that ABC's Nightline filmed at last year). The
food was fantastic. Being potluck, the variety was excellent,
including cookies shaped like guns. Being careful not to brandish and
practicing my safe gun handling, I kept my finger off the cookie's
trigger and kept it pointed in a safe direction as I ate it

Attorney General candidate Ken Cuccinelli showed up and spent an hour
or so walking around and talking to attendees. In a short speech, he
pointed out that in too many districts during the last election gun
owners did not get off the sofa to vote. In Congressman Virgil
Goode's district, Cuccinelli said, 28,000 gun owners didn't bother to
vote and Goode lost by 700 votes...

A big thanks to Ron Lilly, and Ron and Jean Hyson for making the
picnic a success and for their continuous efforts to protect all of
our gun rights. And thanks to those who brought all that great food!

*********************************************************
3. Gun Poll in Parade magazine
*********************************************************

Here's a poll to hit:

http://www.parade.com/guns




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[zephyp]

What's most amazing to me is that the RPD did not understand the law. Never having been an LEO I have to ask the question - Aren't these folks required to take some kind of training regarding local and state laws? Don't they get briefed before they go out to make sure they understand the issues? If LE does not know or understand the law how can they avoid violating someone's Constitutional rights? I understand that a police officer cannot be expected to know all the laws but there needs to be some common knowledge or someone they can call if in doubt...like the local operations center maybe.

[herohog]

They don't care about the law. They feel they have the right and the power to make "the law" be whatever they say it is and through bluff and intimidation make most of the sheeple cow-tow to their illegal demands. Yes, I am being unusually harsh but these people, who are hired by the people to follow the laws of the people are failing to do either in a grand fashion!

[Bobtail1911]

Payback for the Republican Convention. Police work for City Government not the people.

[zephyp]

Herohog - I didn't want to say that but I agree. In 50 years I can honestly only recall twice when I was actually helped by an LEO. Virtually every other encounter has been a negative experience. I certainly don't think they are all bad but I think there are enough rotten ones to give most a bad name.

[Skeptic]

I was there as well Saturday night. In fact I was in line talking to one of the guys handing them out - Paul (aka Skidmark on Open Carry dot Org) when the incident started.

The incident itself was ridiculous, then them lying about the rule having been in place for a while was laughable, because the google cache shows that Thursday there was no such anti sticker policy listed.

http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:8-i ... clnk&gl=us

This is sour grapes on their part.

Actually from what I saw, the cops were admitting they didn't know what to do, and were just trying to get people to compromise, it was the venue staff who was the bad guy here - of course the venue is owned by the City of Richmond this it points back to the government in any case.

[allingeneral]

They've rewritten and added several key points according to the cache. Good thought on the google cache, Skeptic.

Here is as cached in google "as it appeared on Jun 4, 2009 17:07:06 GMT":

Event Policies

Animals
Animals are not permitted in the Richmond Coliseum. Exceptions include guide, sign or signal dogs to aide patrons with disabilities.

Banners & Signs
Banners may not be hung anywhere in the Coliseum by anyone other than those given written authorization to do so by the Richmond Coliseum. Patrons must return any unauthorized banners to their vehicle. Though some events allow the display of signs, they are subject to the discretion of Coliseum Staff prior to entry. Signs must be made of lightweight materials only and will not be permitted if mounted or supported in any way by a framework or pole. Signs may be removed from a patron at any time during an event.

Cameras and Recording Devices
The permitted use of cameras varies by event. Cameras with professional lenses and flash attachments, video cameras and audio recording devices are prohibited at the Richmond Coliseum. Feel free to call (804) 780-4970 to confirm specific policies for the event you are attending.

Cancellations
If an event at the Coliseum has been cancelled, please take the tickets to the place of purchase for a full refund. Tickets charged with a credit card by phone or internet are automatically credited to the purchaser's account. Tickets that were purchased through the Coliseum's Group Sales Department, please call the Coliseum directly for specific instructions at 804-780-4970.

Carry-In Items
The following items are not permitted in the Richmond Coliseum.

* Bottles or cans

* Backpacks

* Coolers

* Outside Food and Beverage

* Outside merchandise

* Frisbees and beach balls

* Laser pointers

* Any noise making devices

* Fireworks

* Illegal drugs and alcohol

Children Up to 24 Months of Age:
Children up to 24 Months of age who do not occupy a seat may enter the building without a ticket for most events. This policy is subject to change per event.

Disorderly Conduct
Patrons who fail to abide by arena policies, state and federal law are subject to ejection from the facility. Any patron who is violating arena policy will be asked to correct their behavior and, if they fail to do so in a timely fashion, will be ejected. Individuals who have been ejected must vacate arena property or be subject to arrest on trespassing charges.

Intoxicated Patrons
Intoxicated patrons will not be admitted into the arena at any time. Intoxicated individuals are subject to ejection from the event.

Patron Appearance
Patrons entering the arena must be properly attired with shoes and a shirt. These items must be worn at all times.

Projectiles
The throwing of projectiles inside the arena is not allowed. Offenders are subject to ejection from the event.

Re-entry
The Richmond Coliseum has a no re-entry policy. This means that individuals who enter the facility for an event with an admission ticket and then leave the arena are not allowed back in.

Searches
For the safety and comfort of our guests, we reserve the right to search the belongings of any guest prior to entering the Richmond Coliseum or while on our premises. A search may consist of the following: the guest being asked to open any coat, bag or container and also be physically patted down or screened with a metal detector. If contraband is detected, the guest will be asked to dispose of such item(s) prior to entering the building. Guest may be detained if the item(s) discovered is of an illegal nature. Purses, diaper bags and other small personal bags are allowed, but will be inspected at all entrances. Guests with prohibited items will be turned away at entrances. No storage or "check in" area will be provided for such items. Items confiscated at entry will not be returned.

Smoking
The Richmond Coliseum is a smoke-free facility. However, smoking is allowed outside during events at designated entrances: 5th Street and the Leigh Street Plaza areas.

Weapons
NOTICE: The Richmond Coliseum's policy against bringing weapons into the building or arena shall not otherwise prohibit the lawful carrying of a handgun or other firearms or the lawful carrying of a concealed handgun with a valid permit issued pursuant to Virginia Code Section 18.2-308. The Richmond Coliseum reserves the right to search any person (including any belongings) prior to entry and while on the Coliseum's premises and to temporarily stop any person carrying a concealed handgun for the purpose of allowing a law-enforcement officer to examine the person's concealed handgun permit and necessary photo ID. We appreciate your cooperation as we try to maintain a safe and comfortable environment for our employees, guests and performers.

Here is how it reads today 08 Jun 09

Event Policies

Animals
Animals are not permitted in the Richmond Coliseum. Exceptions include guide, sign or signal dogs to aide patrons with disabilities.

Banners & Signs
Banners may not be hung anywhere in the Coliseum by anyone other than those given written authorization to do so by the Richmond Coliseum. Patrons must return any unauthorized banners to their vehicle. Though some events allow the display of signs, they are subject to the discretion of Coliseum Staff prior to entry. Signs must be made of lightweight materials only and will not be permitted if mounted or supported in any way by a framework or pole. Signs may be removed from a patron at any time during an event.

Cameras and Recording Devices
The permitted use of cameras varies by event. Cameras with professional lenses and flash attachments, video cameras and audio recording devices are prohibited at the Richmond Coliseum. Feel free to call (804) 780-4970 to confirm specific policies for the event you are attending.

Cancellations
If an event at the Coliseum has been cancelled, please take the tickets to the place of purchase for a full refund. Tickets charged with a credit card by phone or internet are automatically credited to the purchaser's account. Tickets that were purchased through the Coliseum's Group Sales Department, please call the Coliseum directly for specific instructions at 804-780-4970.

Carry-In Items
The following items are not permitted in the Richmond Coliseum.

* Bottles or cans

* Backpacks

* Coolers

* Outside Food and Beverage

* Outside merchandise

* Frisbees and beach balls

* Stickers

* Laser pointers

* Any noise making devices

* Fireworks

* Illegal drugs and alcohol


* Weapons

* Bags of any kind, large purses and any other type of container or device which could be used for carrying prohibited items into the Coliseum, other than small purses, small personal bags, or baby diaper/travel bags for those guests accompanied by a baby or young child.

All small purses, small personal bags and baby diaper/travel bags will be subject to visual consent inspection without exception.

Children Up to 24 Months of Age:
Children up to 24 Months of age who do not occupy a seat may enter the building without a ticket for most events. This policy is subject to change per event.

Disorderly Conduct
Patrons who fail to abide by arena policies, state and federal law are subject to ejection from the facility. Any patron who is violating arena policy will be asked to correct their behavior and, if they fail to do so in a timely fashion, will be ejected. Individuals who have been ejected must vacate arena property or be subject to arrest on trespassing charges.

Intoxicated Patrons
Intoxicated patrons will not be admitted into the arena at any time. Intoxicated individuals are subject to ejection from the event.

Patron Appearance
Patrons entering the arena must be properly attired with shoes and a shirt. These items must be worn at all times.

Projectiles
The throwing of projectiles inside the arena is not allowed. Offenders are subject to ejection from the event.

Re-entry
The Richmond Coliseum has a no re-entry policy. This means that individuals who enter the facility for an event with an admission ticket and then leave the arena are not allowed back in.

Searches
For the safety and comfort of our guests, we reserve the right to search the belongings of any guest prior to entering the Richmond Coliseum or while on our premises. A search may consist of the following: the guest being asked to open any coat, bag or container and also be physically patted down or screened with a metal detector. If contraband is detected, the guest will be asked to dispose of such item(s) prior to entering the building. Guest may be detained if the item(s) discovered is of an illegal nature. Purses, diaper bags and other small personal bags are allowed, but will be inspected at all entrances. Guests with prohibited items will be turned away at entrances. No storage or "check in" area will be provided for such items. Items confiscated at entry will not be returned.

Smoking
The Richmond Coliseum is a smoke-free facility. However, smoking is allowed outside during events at designated entrances: 5th Street and the Leigh Street Plaza areas.

Weapons
The Coliseum's prohibition against bringing weapons into the building or arena shall not otherwise prohibit the lawful carrying of a handgun, or the lawful carrying of a concealed handgun with a valid permit issued pursuant to Virginia Code Section 18.2-308, in the Coliseum. The Coliseum may conduct a lawful search of any person (including belongings) prior to entry, and while on, the Coliseum's premises and may temporarily stop any person carrying a concealed handgun for the purpose of allowing a law-enforcement officer to examine the person's concealed handgun permit and necessary photo ID. We appreciate your cooperation as we try to maintain a safe and comfortable environment for our employees, guests and performers.

Posting now, then will go back through and try to outline specific differences in bold or italic.

[CCFan]

Wonder if they'll enforce that at the next political party meeting? How ridiculous. So does that mean they can't sell stickers at concerts? No bumper stickers at a political rally? I guess that same gov't that runs the coliseum probably makes sure that teachers don't put "good job" stickers on the students homework - you know, in case the kids stick them on things... sheesh.

[Skeptic]

Glenn Beck mentioned this a little and then had a caller talk about this as well.