How do we Recover and return back to a whole country again?

[Taggure]

Well dont go jumping off the deep end there buddy and before you start Assuming things read more of my past posts to understand where I am coming from in my views. To answer your assumption NO I do not think he planned 9/11.

Tell me oh enlightened one remember about the gas prices a few years back: Why did President Bush continue to by oil for the national reserves when the price was at their highest ever. There was a huge outcry about it and yet he kept on buying the oil. That was irresponsible in my book and then his and the Congress was spending way too much.

what has not gone up in price??? everything cost more than it did 5 yrs ago or 10 yrs ago or 20 yrs ago..... the price that Mobil or exxon or BP charges you for gas has little to do w/ national or federal gas reserves .... and those companies set a price that they know you will pay, the gov doesn't help w/ the hefty tax that is applied to the final price of gas (almost a third of the price of gas per gallon is a tax)

btw I'm not a huge fan of Mr. Bush I just hate the "lets blame bush" game...and btw all the spending that was done in all but 2 yrs of the bush years was approved by a Dem majority congress....people always seem to forget that fact

I could not agree with you more and all I was really saying was that I did not really start paying attention till then about what they were doing. The gas thing just stuck in my crawl because I was paying close to $100 to fill my Truck tank up.

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

I was about half way through getting up on "my soapbox" before I decided to spare you all. I will leave you with this...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 256183936#

Let's see who can sit through 3.5 hours of documentary about monetary policy.

[CCFan]

Let's see who can sit through 3.5 hours of documentary about monetary policy.

I'd gladly sit through 3.5 hours if they were going to tell me how they were getting rid of the Fed. Lets return back to a monetary policy that bases the value of our dollar on some tangible good, like the gold standard...

Andrew Jackson is noted as saying "I am one of those who do not believe that a national debt is a national blessing, but rather a curse to a republic; inasmuch as it is calculated to raise around the administration a moneyed aristocracy dangerous to the liberties of the country." Seems about right to me.

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

I hear ya. I am knee deep in the hard asset back currency vs fiat debate as well. But I will let you know before you watch that you will see no love for the gold standard in this video. I just like to hear all of the info and I really liked this one. All I know (or feel) is that a debt based currency is absolutely choking this country into oblivion.

sorry for the threadjack

[gunderwood]

I hear ya. I am knee deep in the hard asset back currency vs fiat debate as well. But I will let you know before you watch that you will see no love for the gold standard in this video. I just like to hear all of the info and I really liked this one. All I know (or feel) is that a debt based currency is absolutely choking this country into oblivion.

sorry for the threadjack

I would prefer a hard asset. Unfortunately, even a hard asset like gold is not impervious from government debasing.

[arkypete]

Nothing will change until all entitlements are deleted.
Nothing will change until the political parties stop using tax payers money to bribe voters.
Nothing will change until the politicians collapse all the departments not mentioned in the originating document.
Nothing will change until the states assume their rightful place.
Nothing will change until elected officials lose the power to vote for their own pay checks and benefits
Nothing will change until those recieving a pay check from the government have the right to vote for the people who vote on their pay. {The federal government is the largest employer in this nation}
Nothing will change until the people of this nation realise that they are being subverted and subjugated into sheep.
None of this will happen, so nothing will change. The federal governmnet will keep getting larger, more intrusive, more threatening and more greedy.


Jim

[gunderwood]

Nothing will change until all entitlements are deleted.
Nothing will change until the political parties stop using tax payers money to bribe voters.
Nothing will change until the politicians collapse all the departments not mentioned in the originating document.
Nothing will change until the states assume their rightful place.
Nothing will change until elected officials lose the power to vote for their own pay checks and benefits
Nothing will change until those recieving a pay check from the government have the right to vote for the people who vote on their pay. {The federal government is the largest employer in this nation}
Nothing will change until the people of this nation realise that they are being subverted and subjugated into sheep.
None of this will happen, so nothing will change. The federal governmnet will keep getting larger, more intrusive, more threatening and more greedy.


Jim

Are we to far gone to make those changes?

[jaywade]

I think we are screwed...I also don't think we're at the point of revolt yet however I think we're past the point of this turning around....as a father this scares the crap out of me...I can't stand to think what lies ahead for my daughter

[VBshooter]

Some of those things would represent a radical departure from the status quo but I think the people need to buckle down,stop bitching and get ready to take care of business and themselves like Americans and not some hybrid European experiment in douche bag socialism that can;t and won;t succeed...We must Stop allowing liberal politicians and groups from making it a three ring circus with their excuses like they always do....

[jaywade]

Some of those things would represent a radical departure from the status quo but I think the people need to buckle down,stop bitching and get ready to take care of business and themselves like Americans and not some hybrid European experiment in douche bag socialism that can;t and won;t succeed...We must Stop allowing liberal politicians and groups from making it a three ring circus with their excuses like they always do....

it's not that I disagree w/ what is said is...I believe far too much damage has been done, the numbers that count on state and fed welfare or state and federal salaries is so out of wack, changing that would create it's own chaos, add to the fact that you have a very pro progessive/liberal eductaion system, a media that very slanted to the left and unions that help insure these ideas are forced into law.... undoing that is not easy with out lasting scars.... and I don't believe we're a nation that's going to fight a second civil war yet... it's a mess

[VBshooter]

I see your point ,but someting needs to be done ,These groups and individuals have crippled this country to where we are afraid to confront them? Screw Em! PC has had its day and its time to put these entities on the shelf and put the countries needs first. IMHO the taxes that the liberal do gooders keep piling on business and individuals keeps companies from wanting to do work here, And we need more than freaking McDonalds and JIffy Lube for employment here,,, We need our manafacturing base to return so we are selling to them and not the other way around,,,, Every time we turn around all the damn Democraps want is more taxes on Industry, the "rich", and anyone else they can screw except their protected PC base.,Many of us have had to take our hits and I see no issue at all with the welfare lowlifes, unions, and government ( at all levels, Fed State ,Local) taking a few too.In fact they are way overdue in getting a bit of a poking from someone bigger (The Taxpayers) This raising them up on pedestals like they are untouchable is a trend long past its time and needs to stop ,

[arkypete]

Nothing will change until all entitlements are deleted.
Nothing will change until the political parties stop using tax payers money to bribe voters.
Nothing will change until the politicians collapse all the departments not mentioned in the originating document.
Nothing will change until the states assume their rightful place.
Nothing will change until elected officials lose the power to vote for their own pay checks and benefits
Nothing will change until those recieving a pay check from the government have the right to vote for the people who vote on their pay. {The federal government is the largest employer in this nation}
Nothing will change until the people of this nation realise that they are being subverted and subjugated into sheep.
None of this will happen, so nothing will change. The federal governmnet will keep getting larger, more intrusive, more threatening and more greedy.


Jim

Are we to far gone to make those changes?

Unfortunately Yes.
Nearly 50% of the citizens don't pay taxes, yet they can vote. Imagine going out to dinner with some strangers that you have no choice in choosing their company and they have the same rights and choices that you have and you get to pay for the dinner.

Jim

[zephyp]

Unfortunately Yes.
Nearly 50% of the citizens don't pay taxes, yet they can vote. Imagine going out to dinner with some strangers that you have no choice in choosing their company and they have the same rights and choices that you have and you get to pay for the dinner.

Jim

Call me cynical but I see it a little different...you dont care to go to dinner but you still have to pay for everyone else that does...

[Kreutz]

I see your point ,but someting needs to be done ,These groups and individuals have crippled this country to where we are afraid to confront them? Screw Em! PC has had its day and its time to put these entities on the shelf and put the countries needs first. IMHO the taxes that the liberal do gooders keep piling on business and individuals

keeps companies from wanting to do work here, And we need more than freaking McDonalds and JIffy Lube for employment here,,, We need our manafacturing base to return so we are selling to them and not the other way around,,,,

Every time we turn around all the damn Democraps want is more taxes on Industry, the "rich", and anyone else they can screw except their protected PC base.,

Taxes and the "Democraps" have little to do with why we lost our manufacturing jobs. Companies, if allowed, will ALWAYS pursue the cheapest labor. Now that some Chinese are demanding something close to a living wage, the companies are decamping China for places like Vietnam. After NAFTA when Mexico was the place to be, when Mexicans had the gall to demand fair pay they split for China. History repeats itself.

US corporations pay amongst the lowest actual taxes in the world, that much touted "35%" isn't paid by any major companies, in fact, alot pay something closer to 0% taxes.

Until there is a real fiscal penalty to outsourcing those jobs will stay overseas. In fact the "Democraps" tried closing a major loophole called deferral(courtesy of GW Bush) that allowed US companies to avoid taxes on their outsourced profits, you can thank the Republicans for killing it with a forced cloture vote, and every single one voted no on closing the loophole.

Many of us have had to take our hits and I see no issue at all with the welfare lowlifes, unions, and government ( at all levels, Fed State ,Local) taking a few too.In fact they are way overdue in getting a bit of a poking from someone bigger (The Taxpayers) This raising them up on pedestals like they are untouchable is a trend long past its time and needs to stop ,

Multinational corporations are the single largest beneficiary of welfare in this country. We subsidized them to the tune of 92 billion in 2006 according to the right-wing Cato Institute. http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8230

[CowboyT]

The Cato Institute is actually Libertarian. Just FYI.

[wylde007]

Nothing will change until all entitlements are deleted.
Nothing will change until the political parties stop using tax payers money to bribe voters.
Nothing will change until the politicians collapse all the departments not mentioned in the originating document.
Nothing will change until the states assume their rightful place.
Nothing will change until elected officials lose the power to vote for their own pay checks and benefits
Nothing will change until those receiving a pay check from the government have the right to vote for the people who vote on their pay. {The federal government is the largest employer in this nation}
Nothing will change until the people of this nation realize that they are being subverted and subjugated into sheep.
None of this will happen, so nothing will change. The federal government will keep getting larger, more intrusive, more threatening and more greedy.

Are we to far gone to make those changes?

Yes.

Options remaining for a future worth living are rapidly dwindling.

[Mindflayer]

Kreutz is correct. The whole-hearted endorsement of anything to support the corporate welfare state in the United States is part of the GOP brainwashing. Before you GOP fanatics jump on me, the liberal left wing nuts are also beholden to corporations that operate under "activist group" labels. What is the commonality? The desire to gather power, maintain power, and push an agenda.

Travis, I disagree. Revolution does not always need to come from the barrel of a gun. As CowboyT said, we need to start voting for the right causes. We need to stop voting as "we're supposed to" by inertia.

There's a reason politicians push hard on social issues. They touch faith, and fire people's emotions. When you are fired up about a personal choice, you overlook the larger picture. I certainly don't want to derail this thread by evoking Godwin, but keep in mind Hitler's famous words:

"All this was inspired by the principle--which is quite true within itself--that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods."

We worry about shark attacks, about gay marriage, about Janet Jackson's breast - and ignore the larger issues.

[zephyp]

I somewhat agree but think it isnt enough to think that voting for "independent" candidates is a long term solution. It will take some time before there are enough decent candidates to make a difference. And, I suspect the 2 parties would devise some scheme to thwart it once they see it becoming a real threat.

Bottom line is we dont have time to wait and hope that breaking up our 2 party system will work. We are approaching the precipice and need to act and react much quicker than what our 2,4,6 year voting cycle provides.

Revolution? Yes, but not a shooting one. The people need to stand up and start making sacrifices (NOT THE ONES "THEY" WANT US TOO) if we want to take our country back. We must show them that we are in charge and will exercise that authority whenever we choose.

So, how are some ways we can do that peacefully and bend them to the will of the people....protests.

Not the protests we see today. Yes they have some value but the big ones are always on a weekend so no one has to take time off from work. We organize, get permits, advertise, carry our signs and at the end of the day go home. The biggest impact comes from watching the various news channels to see who reports the most accurate figure of how many were there...but there is one big kicker....the politicians are all somewhere else...HELLO....we set it up that way...

So, if we descend upon DC en masse and stay there camped in the streets and on the lawns and sidewalks indefinitely then that makes an impact. Arrest us? Ok, so arrest several hundred thousand people. Permit? No permit required by my Constitution. If its not organized then its not really a protest event so why a permit. If everyone is peaceful then what can they do...only problem with this is it aint gonna happen....

Answer: sit back and watch while the city becomes completely paralyzed with gridlock to the point where absolutely nothing gets done...

There are ways to bend these so called leaders to the will of the people. We just have to be willing to put ourselves out there, stand together, and make a sacrifice...is our country and future worth it...think about it the next time you start planning how you're going to vote out your corrupt congressman...yeah right...wait a year or more and hope it happens...

Btw, the notion of a major sit in is merely one. We must think outside the box on this...IMHO change will not come the way we need it at the polls. THEY control that system -- not us...

[wylde007]

So, if we descend upon DC en masse and stay there camped in the streets and on the lawns and sidewalks indefinitely then that makes an impact.

Ask the Bonus Army how that worked out for them.

They already had nothing left to lose and were still attacked by their own brothers-in-arms. You know, those guys who were just "following orders" and would never "fire on American citizens"?

Yeah. Those guys.

[jaywade]

We worry, about gay marriage, and ignore the larger issues.

I know I cut a lot out.... I think you are deeply wrong. I will try to explain.
While I agree that both parties are full of their own problems social issues do matter....

if you were a scumbag and I am a normal tax paying citzen we will have very many differences between what's right and what's wrong....now if we elect people into offices that have views that are closer to the scumbag than the normal tax playing citzen we have problems

people love to bring up the marriage issue as something the gov should stay away from, the problem is that the PEOPLE do care...how do I know that? well every state that has put it to the voters as to allow gay marriage has voted it down except for one... also every state that took a vote to allow gay couples to adopt, that also got voted no from VOTERS or the PEOPLE

see I get that the gay community wants marriage I get that people that say "I'm a Libertarian" don't care one way or another...that's all fine but the , masses of this country don't want that.....Social issues help define where someone's morals are...and I'm sorry but I'd rather have someone that believes in god and has some sense of what morals are than some athiest that doesn't care about anything

the biggest problem we have in washington today is the people we put there only care about these things ...
1. their own districts (casue they want to get re-elected)
2. themself's (casue they want to get $$$$ and also re-elected)
3. their party (casue they want their freinds to get $$$ and get elected or re-elected)

that's it

the right thing is often casted aside to do the thing that will serve them the best

and if we held their feet to the fire over some things that do matter ....maybe we would have better people to send to washington