Collapse of Society 4x4

[jdonovan]

Horse.

One of the more likely real society comes apart theory is EMP.

EMP = no electronics. Most 80's and newer vehicles become mostly useless.

[chfaunce]

Yeah, but that'll crap all over the lawn and it's bad enough picking up after the dog.

[Reverenddel]

"Yeah, but that'll crap all over the lawn and it's bad enough picking up after the dog."

ROTFLMAO!

[Jakeiscrazy]

For a SHTF situation, how about the original 4-wheel-drive, a horse? Those can go anywhere and no road is needed. Fuel = grass and stream/creek water. Can carry a load if needed. Seemed to work pretty well back in the day.

That's a good point, here in VA there is lots of grass to graze on. Plus you can just ride beside and past those traffic jams. No need for detail, but it could be last resort food.

[chfaunce]

That's a good point, here in VA there is lots of grass to graze on. Plus you can just ride beside and past those traffic jams. No need for detail, but it could be last resort food.

With all the deer and squirrel in this state? Well, assuming you were down to your last resort, I wonder what would make a good wine paring. Afterall, studies show that people who drink may live longer than those who don't. Survival of the fittest, I say.

[zephyp]

Just gimme my boots and plenty of clean socks. Hard to hide anything bigger than yourself when the crazies will be traveling in gangs and packs.

[nickf829]

Yeah that's a tough one. A horse sounds like a great idea, but who wants to keep one of those, especially you city folk. I don't think Prince William County would appreciate a horse in the backyard of your townhouse, or worse on the balcony of your condo haha. Although a burro they may understand...

A lifted vehicle will suck down fuel and you have to be prepared for fuel shortage/outages. An older jeep cherokee would be good. The straight 6 gets good gas mileage, has decent ground clearance, and can be quite utilitarian so you can bring as much or as little crap as you'd like to get away with. Other than that, I'd say dirtbikes, 4 wheelers, even the ole pedal powered mountain bikes may help get off the beaten path without being loaded down with fuel. Although, you won't be able to take much/anything with you. I guess a horse sounds like a better and better idea... plan B could be to learn to ride a horse, take lessons so you know what you are doing, and then find somewhere locally who raises them that you can "borrow" if SHTF. Looting is never a good idea, but is it really looting if it's a horse you're running off with. Technically it would be the horse running off with you, so he's the one that would be looting, if you wanted to get all PC about it.

[gunderwood]

Yeah that's a tough one. A horse sounds like a great idea, but who wants to keep one of those, especially you city folk. I don't think Prince William County would appreciate a horse in the backyard of your townhouse, or worse on the balcony of your condo haha. Although a burro they may understand...

A lifted vehicle will suck down fuel and you have to be prepared for fuel shortage/outages. An older jeep cherokee would be good. The straight 6 gets good gas mileage, has decent ground clearance, and can be quite utilitarian so you can bring as much or as little crap as you'd like to get away with. Other than that, I'd say dirtbikes, 4 wheelers, even the ole pedal powered mountain bikes may help get off the beaten path without being loaded down with fuel. Although, you won't be able to take much/anything with you. I guess a horse sounds like a better and better idea... plan B could be to learn to ride a horse, take lessons so you know what you are doing, and then find somewhere locally who raises them that you can "borrow" if SHTF. Looting is never a good idea, but is it really looting if it's a horse you're running off with. Technically it would be the horse running off with you, so he's the one that would be looting, if you wanted to get all PC about it.

I never really qualified this question well enough. I was referring to collapse as in Argentina for the last decade. It wasn't the end of the world, but it was the financial collapse of a whole society. People still have business to do, but things are very bad.

When you say older jeep Cherokee, please define. I'm not familiar enough with them to know what good gas mileage for a straight six jeep was.

[gunderwood]

I created a thread to assist this discussion.

http://vagunforum.net/post55125.html#p55125

[nickf829]

We had a 92"ish" 5spd Jeep Cherokee with the 4.0L in it and got about 25mpg if you babied it down the road. The thing struggled past 70mph but it made up for it with the 4wd capabilities while maintaining good mpg's. It had a relatively large fuel tank in it to so it wouldn't be a bad idea if you needed to go a long distance on a single tank of gas. In case of EMP it would be worthless, so I guess you'd have to go back even older for anythign that would survive that.

[ainokea]

Unimog. With a horse trailer.

[CowboyT]

I never really qualified this question well enough. I was referring to collapse as in Argentina for the last decade. It wasn't the end of the world, but it was the financial collapse of a whole society. People still have business to do, but things are very bad.

In that case, would you really need a 4x4? If people still have business to do, then sure, things might be a bit rough, but the basic infrastructure is still in place. What you're describing sounds more to me like the Great Depression of 1929 in this country. If that's the case, then wouldn't it be better to have a carry gun on one's person and a shotgun for one's home, and plenty of practice with both?

[SgtBill]

I will stick with my Chevy K-1500 extra cab with 320 H.P. under the hood and about 19 to 21 MPG. It can carry 6 people and a hell of a lot of cargo in the pick up bed and with the right tire's will go just about anywhere.
Bill

[gunderwood]

I never really qualified this question well enough. I was referring to collapse as in Argentina for the last decade. It wasn't the end of the world, but it was the financial collapse of a whole society. People still have business to do, but things are very bad.

In that case, would you really need a 4x4? If people still have business to do, then sure, things might be a bit rough, but the basic infrastructure is still in place. What you're describing sounds more to me like the Great Depression of 1929 in this country. If that's the case, then wouldn't it be better to have a carry gun on one's person and a shotgun for one's home, and plenty of practice with both?

The Argentina thread I started noted two things.

1. Lack of road maintenance. They built all kinds of things, including roads because the government could just print some more money (one of the main reasons we had to come off of the gold standard). The Great Depression was a huge depression, but wasn't the collapse of our currency. In that happens, you can't effectively print money for public works projects. I.e. the roads get bad real quick.

2. Probably more important is the kidnappings and general lawlessness. Road blocks and such apparently are common...you need a 4x4 to avoid them.

I will stick with my Chevy K-1500 extra cab with 320 H.P. under the hood and about 19 to 21 MPG. It can carry 6 people and a hell of a lot of cargo in the pick up bed and with the right tire's will go just about anywhere.
Bill

That is pretty good MPG for a big truck. What year is that?

[GS78]

You know that in a scenario like this , gas milage would be your least concern, the ability to move freely would be your problem, especially if you are a european-american. You have to be prepared to traverse vast communities of latinos who will envelope most of the areas we consider home on this board. There was a reason that government schools were pushing spanish language classes decades ago.

[SgtBill]

It's a 2009 Garrett with a K & N air filter system on it and always maintain the proper air pressure and not let the wife drive it. I also keep it waxed every 3 mos. so that It has less wind resistence and this will boost the MPG.
Bill

[CowboyT]

1. Lack of road maintenance. They built all kinds of things, including roads because the government could just print some more money (one of the main reasons we had to come off of the gold standard). The Great Depression was a huge depression, but wasn't the collapse of our currency. In that happens, you can't effectively print money for public works projects. I.e. the roads get bad real quick.

Ah, got a point there. After a while, the roads would get kinda rough. In that case, I'd take a good ol' fashioned Jeep with the Perkins Diesel engine. Diesels generally, and older ones in particular, are less fussy about quality of fuel. And I'd add a veggie oil kit to it.

The other alternative would be an older Dodge Ram (say, 1997 or previous) with the 12-valve mechanical-everything Cummins and the NV4500 manual transmission. That drivetrain will go For-Ever. And the engine (like the Mercedes Diesels of the '70's and early '80's) is known to be very veggie-oil friendly in case Diesel fuel isn't available.

2. Probably more important is the kidnappings and general lawlessness. Road blocks and such apparently are common...you need a 4x4 to avoid them.

So, both a 4x4 to avoid them, and a carry gun just in case you can't.

[zephyp]

You know that in a scenario like this , gas milage would be your least concern, the ability to move freely would be your problem, especially if you are a european-american. You have to be prepared to traverse vast communities of latinos who will envelope most of the areas we consider home on this board. There was a reason that government schools were pushing spanish language classes decades ago.

Thats already a reality in Springfield...you cant swing a dead cat without hitting a dozen...Annandale (Little river turnpike) has become a strip of latinos constantly hanging around waiting for work. Most I see in this area are on foot or bicycle which I generally associate with illegals...

[Moonduck]

I have an explorer that is my daily driver. Not a 4x4 though. For this area, 4x4 is just not all that necessary even in a SHTF scenario. No, I can't go mud-bogging with my exploder, but I will not really have a need around here. The sort of 'off-road' here will be just fine with my 4x2 and the possible addition of tire chains. I know, as I've done enough 'off-road' around here to know what little capacity I need.

This assumes a non-total collapse. In the case of a total collapse, well, I doubt that any IC-powered vehicle will be kept running all that long. My Trek 4300 will probably be the most reliable option in that case. Go go pedal power.

[Reverenddel]

Have we discounted a simple Jeep Wrangler, or Ford Ranger?

I was thinking with a 4 cylinder diesel, and in 4x4... and not all "Lifted" but with thought planned out... you could be okay with that.. .