So a pastor and a congregation of 50 plan to burn a stack of Korans. Well, maybe not any longer, but that's not the reason for this post. When I first learned about his plan I thought - well, now I know why we all get a bad name from far right wing nuts like this guy - BUT please read on.
So, every body including obama, hillary, holder, petraus, etc condemn this pastor's planned actions. No big surprise right. I was taken aback by bloomberg (the twit's) reaction as he appeared to be the only person with a sensible response. To paraphrase - "its boneheaded but he has the right to do it."
So, I'm thinking this pastor is a far right wing nut until today when I stumbled across a news story. Yes, granted what the Soldier planned to do probably violated General Order #1 (cant try to convert any muslims to Christianity) but thats besides the point.
Rewind to May 2009. Who is in charge. Obama...hillary...holder...patreaus...all of whom have condemned the pastor's planned act to burn Korans and most have also supported the ground zero mosque. So, someone discovers a Soldier has a stack of Holy Bibles and "they" determine he plans to use them to proselytize Afghan muslims. What do "they" do...destroy them...not ship them back to the States, but DESTROY them. This, coupled with the current administration's support of the ground zero mosque and other actions leave me to believe that they are supporting (whether knowingly or not) a muslim take over of our country....
Condemn me if you will or laugh or or whatever. So be it.
Consider this -- the current administration, the MSM, and many others are propagating Islam as a "religion" of peace. Well, please explain this to me -- why are there a bunch of them (as portrayed by the MSM and voiced as fears by petraus and the administration) promising death to Americans and burning our flag if the pastor burns the Koran? They do this all the time anyway. By the way, our troops in Afghanistan are already in harms way. How will this change that. If you, general P, want to smoke out terrorists and islam extremists so our guys can plug them, then this looks like a good target of opportunity.
Here's the link to to the Bible burning...even if you arent a Christian, this should signal to you that there is a very dangerous precedent being set by this administration. I'm jumping on GS78's train and I'm praying that the pastor in Florida changes his mind...if he does, I will no kidding overnight express a barrel full of Korans to him...
In the end they are books. And we all know how book burnings end......
DK - I understand your passion, I even admire it. But stooping to the level of barbarians is NOT the way to higher thought. Yes, it feels good for a bit, but the hangover is a bitch.
KaosDad wrote:
DK - I understand your passion, I even admire it. But stooping to the level of barbarians is NOT the way to higher thought. Yes, it feels good for a bit, but the hangover is a bitch.
Hey, I never said it was...just pointing out the injustice of those speaking out against the nut job in Florida...the way this issue (actually the whole Islam/Islamaphobia) is being handled is sickening...
For our administration to destroy Bibles and then condemn the act in question as they cower/grovel to Islam is heinous...even when things are really stupid lines sometimes get drawn in the sand.
The lines have been drawn quite clearly and we must all stand somewhere...I for one will NOT stand with those who destroyed Bibles or idly watched Bibles destroyed and then condemn this man's act. That would be far worse than heinous...
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...
And the beat goes on.... The pastor says that he was told the mosque site would be moved which the muslim people are denying.. The Imam Shama Lama Ding Dong has denied that and states that they (muslims)will not compromise their religion but will reach out in peace,love and BS. Its getting old seeing that sack and his crap eating grin on the tube singing the praises and lying his butt off all at the same time....
Florida pastor cancels Koran-burning plan
(2010-09-09)
By Ben Gruber
GAINESVILLE, Florida (Reuters) - A Christian pastor on Thursday canceled a plan to burn copies of the Koran at his obscure Florida church, which had drawn international condemnation and a warning from President Barack Obama that it could provoke al Qaeda suicide bombings.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates called Terry Jones, an obscure minister who heads the tiny Dove World Outreach Center church in the Florida town of Gainesville, to urge him not to go ahead, the Pentagon said.
Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said Gates had expressed "grave concern" in the brief telephone call with Jones that the Koran burning "would put the lives of our forces at risk, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan."
Jones later told journalists outside his church that he was calling off his plan, which had caused worldwide alarm and raised tensions over this year's anniversary of the September 11, 2001, al Qaeda attacks on New York and Washington.
He confirmed Gates' call but linked his decision to what he said was an agreement by Muslim leaders -- which they denied -- to relocate an Islamic cultural center and mosque planned close to the site of the September 11 attacks in New York.
The proposed location has drawn opposition from many Americans who say it is insensitive to families of the victims of the September 11 attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people.
"The imam has agreed to move the mosque, we have agreed to cancel our event on Saturday," Jones said.
CONFUSION OVER MOSQUE "DEAL"
He said he would fly to New York on Saturday with Imam Muhammad Musri, head of the Islamic Society of Central Florida to meet the New York imam at the center of the controversy, Feisal Abdul Rauf.
But Rauf said in a statement he was surprised by the announcement. "I am glad that Pastor Jones has decided not to burn any Korans. However, I have not spoken to Pastor Jones or Imam Musri. I am surprised by their announcement," he said.
"We are not going to toy with our religion or any other. Nor are we going to barter. We are here to extend our hands to build peace and harmony," he said.
Sharif el-Gamal, the project developer for the New York mosque, said in a statement: "It is untrue that the community center known as park 51 in lower Manhattan is being moved. The project will proceed as planned. What is being reported in the media today is a falsehood."
Musri conceded to reporters: "This is not a done deal yet. This is a brokered deal," he said. He said he had no fixed time for him and Jones to meet Rauf in New York.
INTERNATIONAL CONDEMNATION
Earlier, world leaders had joined Obama in denouncing Jones' plan to burn copies of the Islamic holy book on Saturday, the ninth anniversary of the September 11 attacks.
The international police agency Interpol warned governments worldwide of an increased risk of terrorist attacks if the burning went ahead, and the U.S. State Department issued a warning to Americans traveling overseas.
Jones has said Jesus would approve of his plan for "Burn a Koran Day," which he called a reprisal for Islamist terrorism.
The United States has powerful legal protections for the right to free speech and there was little law enforcement authorities could do to stop Jones from going ahead, other than citing him under local bylaws against public burning.
Many people, both conservative and liberal, dismissed the threat as an attention-seeking stunt by the preacher.
"This is a recruitment bonanza for al Qaeda," Obama said in an ABC television interview.
"You could have serious violence in places like Pakistan or Afghanistan. This could increase the recruitment of individuals who would be willing to blow themselves up in American cities or European cities.
The president, who has sought to improve relations with Muslims worldwide, spoke out in an effort to stop Jones from going ahead and head off growing anger among many Muslims.
Insults to Islam, no matter their size or scope, have often been met with huge protests and violence around the world. One such outburst was sparked when a Danish newspaper published a cartoon mocking the Prophet Mohammad in 2005.
Pentagon spokesman Morrell said earlier in the day that there was intense debate within the administration over whether to call Jones. Officials feared of setting a precedent that could inspire copy-cat "extremists."
Jones' plan was condemned by foreign governments, international church groups, U.S. religious and political leaders and military commanders.
It also threatened to undermine Obama's efforts to reach out to the world's more than one billion Muslims at a time when he is trying to advance the Middle East peace process and build solidarity against Iran over its disputed nuclear program.
(Additional reporting by Paul Tait in KABUL, Bappa Majumdar in NEW DELHI, Ben Gruber in GAINESVILLE, Pascal Fletcher and Kevin Gray in MIAMI, Knut Engelmann in POTSDAM, Olivia Rondonuwu in JAKARTA, Sherine El Madany in CAIRO, Daniel Flynn and John Irish in PARIS; TEHRAN bureau; David Alexander, Matt Spetalnick, Alister Bull, Andrew Quinn and Phil Stewart in WASHINGTON; Writing by Ross Colvin; Editing by David Storey)
"Not to worry, I got this !!! " "Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker
zephyp wrote:
For our administration to destroy Bibles and then condemn the act in question as they cower/grovel to Islam is heinous...even when things are really stupid lines sometimes get drawn in the sand.
Do you think the administration just might be taking sides because Obama is a muslim?
A Pakistani newspaper is quoting one of the country's ministers as stating he wants President Obama to offer Muslim prayers at Ground Zero and become the "Caliph," or ruler, of the Islamic nation.
"The coming Eid would expectedly be observed on 9/11; this a golden opportunity for President Obama to offer Eid prayers at Ground Zero and become Amir-ul-Momineen or Caliph of Muslims. In this way, all the problems of Muslim World would be solved," stated Minister of State for Industries and Productions Ayatullah Durrani, according to Pakistan's The Nation newspaper.
The newspaper reported Durrani called its offices and argued the Muslim world was in "dire need" of a supreme leader and that the position would earn Obama the exemplary titles of what Durrani termed "Mullah Barrack Hussain (sic) Obama," or "Allama Obama."
"The time is approaching fast. Barrack Hussain Obama must act now. This is a golden opportunity, Muslims badly need it," added Durrani, according to the newspaper.
Duranni reportedly stated that Obama becoming supreme Islamic leader would be the "key to success."
I really don't care who burns what, when, and for whatever reason. If that's his (the Florida preacher) mode of expression, so be it. It's not infringing upon any of our rights, regardless of whether or not we agree or disagree. I just wish the media would stop giving it attention - that's the only real reason this is such a controversy in the first place. It's not the burning that's going to endanger any of our troops in theater; it's the media putting out a new story every day that's creating a (or enhancing existing) danger. I mean, isn't there a Snooki or Britney story out there that's begging for attention?
VBshooter wrote:He confirmed Gates' call but linked his decision to what he said was an agreement by Muslim leaders -- which they denied -- to relocate an Islamic cultural center and mosque planned close to the site of the September 11 attacks in New York.
The proposed location has drawn opposition from many Americans who say it is insensitive to families of the victims of the September 11 attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people.
"The imam has agreed to move the mosque, we have agreed to cancel our event on Saturday," Jones said.
This guy is a genius. He's playing the media and Obama and Imam Rauf. He's showing that their cries over sensibilities only go 1 way.
@TheGodfather - well, its clear now that obama is either a muslim outright or doing his damndest to help them take over so he can be one...maybe put a madrassa on the corner so his little ones wont have far to walk...
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...
After reading the Reuters article, this looks clearly like a violation of General Order #1, and I wouldn't be surprised if that soldier ends up with an Article 15 for it. He knew or should have known better, and it's pretty obvious that those Bibles translated into local Afghan languages were specifically intended to proselytize, i. e. violate that General Order. When you join the military, yes, you do give up certain Constitutional rights for that time that you're in.
By contrast, the nutjob burning the Korans is not bound by General Order #1 and is thus free to exercise that right of free speech. It's apples and oranges. The true test would be if there's a similar civilian Muslim organization who grabs a bunch of Bibles or Torahs and plans a similar book-burning, and then we'll see what Obama/Clinton/Petraeus/MSM say about *that*.
BTW, I agree with Zephyp that the guy is a nutjob, doesn't make us look good, etc. BUT IT'S HIS RIGHT. For once, I'm actually agreeing with Mayor Bloomberg. As repugnant as I find what this wacko has to say, he nonetheless has the right to say it. And that right MUST be preserved.
CowboyT wrote:
By contrast, the nutjob burning the Korans is not bound by General Order #1 and is thus free to exercise that right of free speech. It's apples and oranges. The true test would be if there's a similar civilian Muslim organization who grabs a bunch of Bibles or Torahs and plans a similar book-burning, and then we'll see what Obama/Clinton/Petraeus/MSM say about *that*.
Well, some Muslims in Afghanistan have been burning American flags already... and one of their Imam's suggests killing American children to shut us up. Not a word out of Obama/Clinton/MSM yet about it that I've heard. I don't know about you, but I generally consider calls for killing children to be much, much, much worse than any book burning. Call me crazy, I guess.
The point here is not that the pastor is a nut job or the soldier violated GO #1 or the sky is blue or anything else. The point is that the current administration (including petreus) and a cast of millions are condemning burning the Koran yet virtually no one (including almost everyone here) has condemned petreus who ordered the destruction by burning of Holy Bibles...
And yet, many still stand on this notion that Islam is a religion of peace while thousands conducted violent protests at the mention of burning the Koran...its kinda like those making that proclamation are Bagdhad Bobs each and everyone....
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...
In my opinion ,Islam or whatever they want to call it ,has no place in this country. It promotes violence and intolerance against those that oppose it. People can get all preachy about religous freedom but this religion goes beyond the boundaries of civility. They need to clean their house to make it acceptable and until then stay out.This garbage of theirs has people afraid to excercise their rights as free people in order to appease a group that should be grateful they are allowed here at all. The PC card is played and abused to death as much or more than the damn race card and it needs to stop. The tolerance has reached it's peak.Bleeding heart liberals need to wake the hell up and see what is happening right before their eyes.Lately the Imam in NY has made veiled threats that if they were to "move " the mosque or the preacher burns some Korans the Muslim world would react badly..*&%$ em! Is this country to be held prisoner and live in fear because of this? We are a nation of freedoms and it would seem to many people have forgotten that freedoms do go both ways,Any religion that advocates murder of its opposers, "Honor" killings of women and children and a host of other tripe has no place here as I see it.
"Not to worry, I got this !!! " "Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker
After defeating their rivals in Palestinian Authority Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement, Muslim extremists are focusing their attacks on Christians in Gaza City. Christians in Gaza City have issued an appeal to the
international community and a plea for protection against the increased attacks by Muslim extremists.
Father Manuel Musallem, head of Gaza's Latin church, told the AP that Muslims have ransacked, burned and looted a school and convent that are part of the Gaza Strip's small Romany Catholic community. He told the AP that crosses were broken, damage was done to a statue of Jesus, and at the Rosary Sister School and nearby convent, prayer books were burned.
Gunmen used the roof of the school during the fighting, and the convent was "desecrated," Mussalem told the AP.
"Nothing happens by mistake these days," he said.
Father Musalam additionally told The Jerusalem Post that the Muslim gunmen used rocket-propeled grenades (RPGs) to blow through the doors of the church and school, before burning Bibles and destroying every cross they could get their hands on.
Catholic Online reports that the heads of Christian churches in the Holy Land have urged both sides to put aside their weapons, noting that the infighting diverted international attention from the national goal of Palestinian independence.
"This domestic fighting where brother draws his weapon against brother is detrimental to all the aspirations of achieving security and stability for the Palestinian people," they said. "In the name of the one and only God as well as in the name of each devastated Palestinian, many of whom are still dying, we urge our brothers in the Fatah and Hamas movements to listen to the voice of reason, truth and wisdom."
One young woman told the Catholic News Service that she was concerned the Islamic extremists would "enforce a strict dress code, forcing women to wear veils and robes." One Christian teenager spoke to the Catholic News Service on the condition that her name not be used. She said the days of fighting had been "very difficult" but they were "OK now."
"We all hope it will be better, but it will never ever be good with Hamas," she said.
Approximately 2,500 Christians live in Gaza.
sudo modprobe commonsense
FATAL: Module commonsense not found.
And if they thought for one minute they could do that here that damn mosque would have been built already and they'd be selling date and nut smoothies at the snack bar and Allah T Shirts in the lobby..Its very disturbing that our own State Department is giving that Imam schmuck our tax money to travel and further promote that BS here in this country. Our PC society is just what they need to exploit the US ( and they are using it well) while running amok feigning innocence in the name of peace,tolerance,and whatever else they can throw on the pile they claim is a peaceful religion.
"Not to worry, I got this !!! " "Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker
@Spence - I wont say I'm shocked that State sent him off on a world tour on our dime - considering who's in charge its not shocking at all...but it is quite distressing...very as a matter of fact. With crap like that going on who knows what's next...
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...
zephyp wrote:@Spence - I wont say I'm shocked that State sent him off on a world tour on our dime - considering who's in charge its not shocking at all...but it is quite distressing...very as a matter of fact. With crap like that going on who knows what's next...
Where are all of the liberals screaming about the separation of Church and State? The silence is deafening...
sudo modprobe commonsense
FATAL: Module commonsense not found.
zephyp wrote:@Spence - I wont say I'm shocked that State sent him off on a world tour on our dime - considering who's in charge its not shocking at all...but it is quite distressing...very as a matter of fact. With crap like that going on who knows what's next...
Where are all of the liberals screaming about the separation of Church and State? The silence is deafening...
Well, obviously this case doesnt count...being endorsed by hillary, holder, and the big eared man himself...there isnt an issue...I'd love to see how they would react if State did the same for someone like Charles Stanley...now that would be interesting and definitely a moment...
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...
OL Big Ears didn;t miss his chance to mention Islam and Muslims and decry their innocence yesterday,, The word Tolerance is about wore out in my book. I think its time WE see some come our way, Granted there are good and bad in every group but the muslim stuff we see is truly not American by any measure and the so called "good " muslims maybe should do a little house cleaning on their own to improve their image. What kills me is Obama thinking he speaks for all of us in his boring ass speeches. He's not the great orater he's cracked up to be...Would rather hear someone read the dictionary than the tripe he spews most of the time.. Hey ! maybe the Republicans and Busch did it?
"Not to worry, I got this !!! " "Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker
zephyp wrote:@Spence - I wont say I'm shocked that State sent him off on a world tour on our dime - considering who's in charge its not shocking at all...but it is quite distressing...very as a matter of fact. With crap like that going on who knows what's next...
State sent him off on similar world tours when George W. Bush was in office, too.
or whatever. So be it.
"Not to worry, I got this !!! " "Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here." Captain John Parker
As repugnant as I find what this wacko has to say, he nonetheless has the right to say it. And that right MUST be preserved.
moment...