Police Seize Over 300 Guns from Rockford Home

[jtrider]

I know, this took place in Illinois, and this is a Virginia Gun Owners Forum. My rationalization for bringing it up surrounds "trends". In particular, search and seizure trends.

http://mystateline.com/fulltext-news?nxd_id=185655

Watch the news video.

"At the current time we're taking the firearms for safe keeping as evidence until we can further investigate this," says Deputy Chief Lindmark.

http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/100433779.html

Research by police showed he is a legal FOID cardholder in Illinois and the guns apparently were registered.

Tough call for police. Securing this property following the investigation of the burglary would be difficult. However, I can't relate the quantity of weapons as "probable cause" for confiscation. Running numbers of all the weapons is justified how? Can I expect the local law to show up at my door, informing me they suspect I have weapons, and they need to confiscate them for safekeeping and run the numbers to see if they are indeed mine, not stolen, or used in a crime? How do they check if they were used in a crime? Ballistics on everything I own? Who wants to run ballistic tests on a weapon that might blow up in your face do to age and deterioration? There are a few 1911's around here I wouldn't fire on a bet, because they are not much more than parts, stored in an assembled manner. Wanna fire one of them for a test? Would the reaction of the police been the same had they found, say, 367 wrenches?

I'm leaning more towards a responsibility to safeguard the property until the owner was located over confiscation. But then again, my post may be nothing more than the over reaction of a radical gun nut.

[Drumstix61]

Read the Article.
Perhaps he's a collector of arms,and not so great at houskeeping?

My initial Gut was,
why aren't the Officers more concerned about getting Evidence on the burglary?...instead of cataloging and Ballistics tests on his weapons?
(may be edited,once I watch the Vid.)

I found this statement below,and it elevated my Blood Pressure...

"Neighbors say even though the weapons may be legal, they still pose a security threat to their neighborhood".

Wait till the neighbors get robbed,and ask him if he wouldn't mind coming over,having dinner,staying the night, and oh...By the way,"can you bring some of your Fine Firearms Collection"...???

"and some Ammo too?"


Also,
Wonder how many of the nice ones end up "getting lost"...

[Jakeiscrazy]

Wow, that is just wrong. They didn't even attempt to acuse him of a crime. They just took them. He should sue for damages. Did you see the way they are piled in the van? There will be damages for sure. Also I have been dieing to use this smilie:

[baz]

It is funny how the snippets of resident comments all deal with the homeowner whose house was broken into. None of them commented about the two burglars. A bunch a ignorant comments from people who apparently don't recognize rights of Americans. I don't appreciate the Rockford news; there clip was terrible and disgruntling. Nevertheless, where was the homeowner when guns were apparently laying all over his house?

[chfaunce]

I found this statement below,and it elevated my Blood Pressure...

"Neighbors say even though the weapons may be legal, they still pose a security threat to their neighborhood".

Clearly you've not seen "Guns Gone Wild!". The ruckus those things can cause when we're away from them is without limit.

Neighbors are reportedly still ok with knives, scissors, cars, baseball bats, high taxes and Democrats, however....

[jtrider]

I can think of two Illinois boo-glars that should be having what is called a Moment of Clarity....an Epiphany. They wouldn't have been more than about two pounds of trigger weight from the promised land, had the 67 year old home owner been home. Maybe single digit ounces. Be like finding out you broke into the rattlesnake house at the zoo.

[CowboyT]

,
why aren't the Officers more concerned about getting Evidence on the burglary?...instead of cataloging and Ballistics tests on his weapons?
(may be edited,once I watch the Vid.)

Well, apparently that's Illinois for ya. I guarantee you, this would've gone down the same way in California.

Also,
Wonder how many of the nice ones end up "getting lost"...

Nah, that'd never happen! (*cough* NEW ORLEANS *cough* KATRINA *cough cough*)

[Diomed]

It's a tactic that's become disgustingly common. It embarrasses the victim and basically wrecks his life (if he had a job before this happened, he probably doesn't anymore and will have difficulty getting one in the future; if he was married, the odds of divorce just skyrocketed; if he has minor kids, the chances of the state taking them just went up too) over a non-crime.

What is perhaps more important to the state is that it serves as a warning to the rest of the citizenry. Don't have "too many" guns (or pets, or food, or whatever) or it'll be you who's cuffed in the front yard while your home is ransacked for the cameras.

Don't be different.

Don't get out of line.

You'll pay dearly if you do.

[jtrider]

More news on this...and charges.

http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/101423969.html

http://www.wrex.com/Global/story.asp?S=13036914

"During their search two weeks ago, Rockford detectives discovered a military grenade round in Barber's home. They did so while removing guns from the property due to calls about a burglary."

"Barber has been charged with unlawful use of a weapon, and is in the Winnebago County Jail tonight."
Unlawful use of a weapon? Wouldn't that imply that he was in the act of using or had used the grenade?
I'm having trouble with the issuance of the search warrants for the other properties. I didn't read that the grenade that was found, and apparently the basis for the warrants being issued for the other properties, was a live grenade. A number of years ago, anyone could buy dummy grenades from various countries for a couple of bucks out of the back of pulp magazines. And I'm really having trouble swallowing the concept that we can do nothing to protect ourselves from these kinds of intrusions until after the intrusion has occurred. A burglary can be stopped while in progress. Why can't rights violations be confronted while in progress?

Life as he knew it is over for this guy. His property and possessions have been made public, removing any notion of the security that comes with privacy of your possessions and self. At least this man's liberties weren't washed own the drain in vain. It has made for a mediocre media event.

All BS aside, I'm amazed that there is no outrage. These cops can rationalize and justify their actions all day long and never convince me otherwise that the core truth of the matter is that they are mortified by the discovery of this large of a weapons cache on their turf. It appears an example needs to made of this social dissident, compelling others to let loose of such notions as building an armory of weapons to be used against the government, and discouraging gun show vendors and participants from storing inventory, whichever the case may be. I mean, those gun show people are a pain in the ass, because you never really know what their up to. All those guns in the hands of those people can't spell anything good for the police. Nip it.

[chfaunce]

Well I for one will never biatch about VA's gun laws ever again. As unfortunate as this story is, it does give me a greater appreciate for the freedoms we have here in the Commonwealth.

[baz]

After reading the comments in http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/101423969.html, it is easy to become frustrated with how many pathetic losers there are responding. Yet, one person says he knew this man personally, knows he would never hurt anyone, and hopes to see the situation resolve quickly. I hope to see a quick resolution, too. Moreover, I would love to see a formal apology and returning of his collection (but I may be dreaming).

[SgtBill]

A lot of people here condem the Police for their actions of removeing these weapons from a unsecure home where the owner can't be found at the time of the first call to the house. I don't see where any of the police at the scene had the ability to make a decision on what to do with all of the weapons that were found. As soon as the Deputy Chief arrived the matter was taken out of everybody else's hands and the Deputy Chief had to make the decision or approve the decision to remove all the weapons. I was not there but if I was and the decision was up to me to make about the weapons I would have had them taken in an inventoryed for safe keeping with a superior officer in charge of the inventory. If there was a problem about some of the weapons may or may not be legal that would be followed up by the investigation Division of the Police Department. The warrent is legal from the standpoint that it was issued because of uncovering the Illegal granade during the Burglary Investigation wich gave cause to believe that this person may have other Illegal things at his other property or in his garage. I don't understand the charge of unlawfull use of a weapon. I know that there are some people here that don't like any type of Police, but you can't paint all Law Enforcement with one wide brush.
Bill
Bill

[jtrider]

A lot of people here condem the Police for their actions of removeing these weapons from a unsecure home where the owner can't be found at the time of the first call to the house. I don't see where any of the police at the scene had the ability to make a decision on what to do with all of the weapons that were found. As soon as the Deputy Chief arrived the matter was taken out of everybody else's hands and the Deputy Chief had to make the decision or approve the decision to remove all the weapons. I was not there but if I was and the decision was up to me to make about the weapons I would have had them taken in an inventoryed for safe keeping with a superior officer in charge of the inventory. If there was a problem about some of the weapons may or may not be legal that would be followed up by the investigation Division of the Police Department. The warrent is legal from the standpoint that it was issued because of uncovering the Illegal granade during the Burglary Investigation wich gave cause to believe that this person may have other Illegal things at his other property or in his garage. I don't understand the charge of unlawfull use of a weapon. I know that there are some people here that don't like any type of Police, but you can't paint all Law Enforcement with one wide brush.
Bill
Bill

I suspect that a sheet of plywood appropriated from somewhere within the public works department of Rockford, Il., placed over the unsecured opening, and an assigned officer would have secured the location until the owner was located. I'm no Dick Tracy, but I could find out who the property was listed to, pair that up with the issuance of the Illinois required FOID [The FOID card is issued by the Illinois State Police, who first perform a check of the applicant on the National Instant Criminal Background Check System [NICS], an electronic database maintained by the FBI]. That would have covered the legality of possession, and confirmed the owner had passed muster as far as being "vetted" for firearm possession. The rest falls under the owner's right to privacy, which looks like it may have been violated. While all reading will probably agree that the police had an obligation to safe the firearms and property until the situation was stabilized, do the rights of the home owner evaporate in doing so? Does a cop's curiosity over ride the rights of a citizen? A sheet of plywood and the presence of a cop would have stabilized everything. After a reasonable time, and no home owner is located, I would think that would have constituted due diligence on the part of the police, and whatever action that was needed to secure the weapons would have been appropriate. Instead, I'm seeing a zealous confiscation of something that doesn't sit well with the police....an armed citizenry unaccountable to the police.

The charge of "Unlawful Use of a Weapon" is explained here:

From http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/il ... de+of+1961.

(720 ILCS 5/24‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24‑1)
(Text of Section from P.A. 96‑41)
Sec. 24‑1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:

(7) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or carries:
(iii) any bomb, bomb‑shell, grenade, bottle or other container containing an explosive substance of over one‑quarter ounce for like purposes, such as, but not limited to, black powder bombs and Molotov cocktails or artillery projectiles;

I'm not painting anything with any width of brush. I'm trying to draw attention to a situation I think merits attention. It just so happens that once again, any violations of rights that may be occurring, are probably being violated by the police.

What rights do you have today that couldn't be swept aside by the rationalizations and creative story telling of a curious cop and a cooperative magistrate? Anything found in your home could give permission to end all life as you know it. Which reminds me, I have a few rounds of armor piercing ammo I need to toss out the window on the way into town. They ain't worth doing time over, should I get the next visit.

[Drumstix61]

A piece of Plywood would certainly have sufficed .

Hell,
how many were on duty and responded? You telling me "they" couldn't get the House "Secured"???

That's a Joke.
It takes 1 guy per floor to secure a dwelling.Maybe 2

Apartments take longer.
Hi-Rises take even more time.

Breaching a perimeter is a whole different thing.
Breaching a door is easy.

"Who" or "Whom" is determining the term "Unsecured"?

If no one is touching it,it shouldn't kill you.

Rule #1. If it isn't Loaded it can't go off. =No Mag + Empty chamber, DO NOT Believe THIS!!! Ever! See Rule #2
Rule #2.It is ALWAYS LOADED See Rule #3
Ruke #3.Never point your Weapon in an Unsafe Direction,or "Sweep" someone.
Rule #4.Know your Weapon Inside and Out. Learn how to service and maintain it.
Rule #5.Learn what FTF/FTE/SQUIB/STOVEPIPE/JAM mean.
a. Then learn how to fix them. All.


And Sarge,while I respect your opinion,and your service,

You know this is wrong,and goes against all ethical actions.

It'd be like 1 of your neighbors called,complained about the noise,then the called the PD/ATF/FBI/VSP/BATFE /FireDept... .and then claimed,brecause of "your" weapons..."I feel unsafe"
("Shots Fired" Call)!

This is an Clear un-warranted Search and Seizure.

Not to mention a rights violation of the homeowner.It's HIS PROPERTY.
And he can store it how he chooses.


"Unsecured"? Perhaps he had them EXACTLY where he wanted them?

Once they got the house secure,

"They" had EVERY MEANS available,to contact the HomeOwner.

The Homeowners house was broken into...and HE's IN JAIL...

[Jakeiscrazy]

I doubt it would have can much even if they were locked up in big 1000 safes bolted to the floor it is the classic "it scares the people what can we do to fix that." That's just not there job.

[Runcible]

His 300 guns could only possibly "pose a security threat to the neighborhood" if he also has 300 hands.

[grumpyMSG]

One thing no one has mentioned, from: http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/100433779.html

"Papers piled from the floor to the ceiling, old fishing equipment, garbage, I mean the house has been condemned at this time just for the safety of anybody that occupies this residence and for the neighbors based on the large amount of debris," Deputy Chief Greg Lindmark said."

The place was condemned because of all of the Trash. Should the Police have just boarded up the house leaving the weapons and ammunition inside even though it was condemned? If the article had said "Police secure 300 firearms after home was broken into, and are waiting for homeowner to get back from vacation." , would that make you feel less like they were just in there to confiscate weapons? If in fact the individual had a live hand grenade in the house, would that change your feelings any? I am hoping that the grenade in question turns out to be a training grenade and is completely harmless, unless somebody throws it and it smacks you in the face.
I have a lot of faith in the Law Enforcement Officers here in the Commonwealth of Virginia and if I didn't I would move to another state where I did. I have plenty of friends and family who are in Law Enforcement and a lot of them are avid gun owners and shooters. Most, as in 90+% have more than just their service connected weapons at the house. Yes there are the occasional idiots, like the clowns in Roanoke City wh harassed a concealed permit holder last year, who hopefully will be put in their place when their civil trial happens.

[CowboyT]

I know that there are some people here that don't like any type of Police, but you can't paint all Law Enforcement with one wide brush.

I personally haven't seen that here. But I do have just one question:

Who watches the watchers?

[SgtBill]

I know that there are some people here that don't like any type of Police, but you can't paint all Law Enforcement with one wide brush.

I personally haven't seen that here. But I do have just one question:

Who watches the watchers?

Then you have not been on the boards for very long.
Bill

[Jakeiscrazy]

I personally haven't seen that here. But I do have just one question:

Who watches the watchers?

I don't see that here either. I think everyone here know Law Enforcement is a needed part of a government and it must have limits. What I do see is a dislike for incidents when people going about there day are harassed for carrying and such. Not all LEO's do that. I think most of us know that.