Cleaning teh AR-15 HAAAAAALPPP!!

[KaosDad]

So I was cleaning the AR today - no, this is NOT the first time. Everytime I do the same thing:

1) 2 - 3 passes thru the barrel with a claner soaked swab
2) Let it sit while I clean the rest of the rifle
3) 2 - 3 passes with a wire brush
4) 1 pass with a lightly oiled swab

The problem: the swab with the cleaner shows little "dirt" while the oiled swab comes out filthy!!!!!!!

What am I doing wrong? This does not happen on the Sig hand gun or the SKS. The condistion is consistant across all ammo regardless of manufacture.

[gunderwood]

What cleaner are you using? You don't mention running dry patches through after the brush.


Also, most ARs have a flash hider or muzzle break. Those are "timed" muzzle devices and require a washer to mount them properly. Because of the washer, there is a small gap between the end of the barrel and muzzle device. Carbon, cleaner, etc. build up in there. Use a qtip to clean it out. A patch and an angle pick can work well too.

After cleaning (before oiling), run a few patches through of rubbing alcohol 97%, not the common 70%. I've gotten some from Walmart. After the rubbing alcohol, run dry patches through and let is sit. Do this to get the remaining oil out, after a dry patch, when you go to shoot.

[KaosDad]

Cleaners: I've tried both Shooter's Chice and Outdoorsman.

Nope, never ran a dry patch or alcohol thru the barrel (alcohol thru the shooter, maybe). I'll try that!!!

Is it advisable to take the break off every so often for a more detailed cleaning??

[gunderwood]

After cleaning you should always run dry patches through to remove the solvent. The rubbing alcohol dissolves any residue that is left. You run dry patches after the rubbing alcohol to remove most of it. Any of the rubbing alcohol left evaporates.

Same when you head to the range. Run dry patches through to remove the oil. Run rubbing alcohol, dry patch, let it sit for 1min.

[SgtBill]

Great advice from Gunderwood but remember that if you are putting any of your weapons away for a period of time to run a oil patch through the bore to avert any rust that may occure from storage as well as the outside of the weapon. Our hands have moisture on them and it can lead to rust unless it is stoped before it starts. I have weapons that are more then 40 years old and they still look brand new with the proper care.

I have used shooters choice for many years but I will run a wet mop of the cleaner through the bore and many times leave it over night wet and then run a NEW bronze brush through it no less then 20 or 30 times to get all the brass or copper fouling that the solvent has loosend up over night. Then I will pass clean patches through the bore untill they come out white and clean. If I am goint put it away for awhile I then do the oil patch job.

I shot high power competition for many years and this is how I treated my M1A1 every time I used it. People make a mistake in re-using their bore brushes for too long of a period. they do wear out and should be thrown away after a few uses. I bought .30 cal. brushes by the box with about 4 dozen in each.
Bill

Bill

[KaosDad]

See? This what I love about this site!!!!!! Great responses, top notch advice given freely w/out the 'tude.

I had no idea the brass brush went south that quickly.

[M1A4ME]

For some reason a .223 seems to get dirty quicker/worse than a .30 caliber. I used to complain about my M700 varmints special and I wasn't shooting very many rounds out of it in a day of groundhog hunting.

As for the AR I do one of two things.

A few rounds through it I just pop it open, wipe the bolt off and the upper receiver out, a solvent soaked patch down the barrel, a brush through it a few times (always pull the patch and brush through from chamber to muzzle - why push that dirty stuff back into the chamber??) and then run another wet patch followed by a few dry patches. I lube it up again (I'm pretty liberal with the Mobil 1) and put it back together and then wipe down the exterior with an oily rag.

Lots of rounds means a pretty dirty gun. I take the sling off, take the receiver halves apart, pull the bolt/bolt carrier, take the bolt out of the carrier, and use carb. cleaner to spray off the bolt/carrier and set it aside to dry. Then I hold the lower by the stock (internal parts down) and spray everything off/out with carb cleaner again and set it aside to dry. Then I shoot a little carb cleaner down the gas tube and barrel, then hold the upper/barrel by the barrel and spray out the locking lug area and the upper receiver with the carb cleaner and set it aside to dry. Then I run another dry patch or two down the barrel to get the carb cleaner residue and anything it knocked loose out of the barrel. I usually run an oily patch down the barrel as I surely don't want to find any rust in there some day.

I use a spray oil to get oil back on the bolt/carrier surfaces (the carb spray strips it to bare metal) then I do the final lube with Mobil 1. I use the spray oil (its been Rem-oil for a couple of years) on the lower and the upper. I drop some oil on the internal parts of the lower (springs/pins for hammer/trigger, the safety, the bolt catch and mag. release and wipe it down with an oily rag. I spray the upper receiver inside, put the charging handle in it, drop a few drips of Mobil 1 where the bolt and charging handle move and then put the bolt in it and put the receiver halves back together and work the bolt a few times.

[gunderwood]

Here is how I clean my AR.

Upper/bolt: Played with different cleaners. I always considered this a pain and it still is, but the right cleaner goes a long way. The easiest and best (also the messiest) is WipeOut. It is an expanding foam cleaner. You can order it from MidwayUSA and Cabela's, but I have not found it locally. Spray it on, it foams up and dissolves all of the carbon. Problem is that an AR has lots of little crevices and it will run everywhere as the foam turns into a liquid. It runs out the uppers gas tube hole (not the gas tube itself, but the hole it goes into it not "water tight." It runs out the ejection door, it runs out the bolt assist, etc. Messy, but effective. I'm trying to figure out if it cleans just as well and can be removed before the foam all turns to a liquid. Then it could just be blown out with compressed air. WipeOut is not safe for wood!

Alternatively, I have been playing with M7-Pro. It does not work was well as WipeOut or some of the harsh cleaners, but it is non-hazardous and basically has a neutral smell. When cleaning a bolt/upper I always get some on my hands so I appreciate something that isn't trying to kill me while I take care of my firearms. M7-Pro is a liquid too and thin, but since it isn't a foam it doesn't expand into every tiny crevice as much. A little bit runs out the ejection door and of course it runs out the rear of the upper, but that is easy to control.

Perhaps the only easy way to clean an AR upper/bolt is to go piston...

Barrel: I use the same products I use for my bolt guns: Montana X-treme. Warning, these contain a ton of ammonia and are very potent! I follow this procedure and it can't be beat IMHO. This is the product of Flea/cmshoot over at snipers paradise:

Make sure to use a good quality bore guide (I prefer the Mike Lucase bore guide) for all the steps involving cleaning rods, except the chamber cleaning step.

Bore Cleaning

To be done after every range session.

1. Push 2-4 patches soaked in Montana X-Treme Copper Killer through the bore until the large amounts of loose carbon aren't showing up on the patch (using a cleaning jag).

2. Scrub the bore with your bronze phosphorus bore brush one time forward and backward for each round fired. Soak the brush before pushing it down the bore, and every 9th-10th stroke if needed.

3. Wait 5 minutes.

4. Push clean dry patches through the bore until they come out totally dry, with no discoloration.

5. Run two patches soaked in 91% isopropyl alcohol or denatured alcohol though the bore to make sure there are no solvent residues left over.

6. Run two dry patches through the bore to dry out the alcohol.

7. Run a patch of Montana X-Treme Bore Oil or Kroil through the bore if you will not be shooting the rifle for a few days. Remember to run a dry patch down the bore to remove the oil before firing the rifle again.



Chamber Cleaning

To be done after every range session.

1) Using either a Sinclair or Dewey chamber cleaning kit, soak a cotton roll in 91% Isopropyl Alcohol/denatured alcohol and mount it in the cleaning jig, and mount the cleaning jig on the chamber cleaning rod provided.

2) Slowly push the assembly into the chamber. Once the assembly has bottomed out, rotate the rod clockwise as seen from the butt 3-5 times. Be careful not to shred the roll, as this will leave hard to remove bits of cotton in the chamber.

3) Repeat Step 2) until the rolls come out clean. Follow with a dry roll.

4) Now take the included chamber cleaning mop, wrap a 2-1/4 inch patch around it counterclockwise, soak with 91% Isopropyl/denatured alcohol, install on the chamber cleaning rod, and insert the assembly into the chamber.

5) Rotate the assembly several times clockwise. Remove and discard the patch, and repeat until the patches come out clean.

6) Inspect the chamber and throat for any cotton debris from cleaning. Remove with a dental pick.

Note: The bolt should occasionally (every few hundred rounds or so) be disassembled and cleaned thoroughly also. Re-lube with grease such as Montana X-Treme bolt grease, Lubriplate or MD Labs XF-7.

A dental pick can be very useful in getting small debris out of hard to reach places in your weapon.



Throat/Carbon Cleaning

To be done every 200 rounds.

1) Squeeze out about 1/2 inch of USP Bore Paste or Iosso Bore Paste onto a patch, then spread the paste over the full surface of the patch. Pastes from the other companies have been known to remove metal.

2) Wrap the patch around your cleaning jag, and stroke it back and forth 20 times through the first 3-4 inches of the barrel. Use a rod stop if necessary.

3) Push the patch through the barrel until NO MORE than 1/32-inch is sticking out of the barrel. Set your rod stop against the back of your bore guide. Stroke the patch 10 times through the entire barrel, checking every few strokes to ensure the rod stop has not slipped. If it does, you run the risk of ruining the crown on your barrel.

4) Wipe your cleaning rod off, and run two patches of alcohol through the barrel, followed by two dry patches. Follow with a patch of bore oil if the rifle will not be fired for several days.

http://snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/i ... ntry195198

Outside: I use a combo of silicon cloth and Birchwood Casey's Barricade. BC Barricade works well and can be found everywhere. Dick's even carries it. I spray it on a cloth, wipe the firearm down. There will be extra oil left on the surface which I just get with a new section of the same cloth. The oil stays in the cloth so once it is "broken in" you don't need as much.

Edit: I should note that I use the USP because it comes with a nice friction reducing oil. Bore paste should be used with the up-most caution as it can damage your firearm if used incorrectly. I do not clean ARs and other other semiautos with it as often as 200 rounds. I do it more like 1-2k, especially if they are chrome lined.

Also, the Montana X-treme bore cleaner works fine until you get to magnum tactical rifles and lots of rounds. I use it generally and then switch to the extreme copper killer. That copper killer brings out copper that other cleaners left behind on my 50bmg. Nothing removes as much copper as it! Hard carbon deposits in the throat still need the bore paste though.

[Palladin]

I had no idea the brass brush went south that quickly.

Yup - if your cleaner will take copper out of the bore, it will attack the brush too...

[gunderwood]

I had no idea the brass brush went south that quickly.

Yup - if your cleaner will take copper out of the bore, it will attack the brush too...

+1

I like the Tipton Carbon rods best. I think the Dewey's handle is slightly better quality, but the coated rods embed grit and wear over time. The carbon is fantastic. I buy my brushes straight from them in the bulk packs and replace worn-out ones in the kit. Brushes are cheap, but not always compatible with different rods.

Lucas bore guides are the best, but be prepared to wait. He always has a backorder: http://www.6mmbr.com/catalog/item/1433308/954882.htm

[gunderwood]

Almost forgot.

I like running a bore snake before starting my cleaning process once or twice through. It removes a lot of the loose carbon and speeds up cleaning a bit IMHO. The bore paste cleaning is to be done after a normal cleaning and yes, you will get carbon out.

[KaosDad]

OK - what about the gas tube? My pipe cleaner only goes so far from the breech end. Should I be worried abut the tube length that's under the hand guard?

[acguy45]

The gas tube actually stays pretty clean, you run more of a risk of getting pieces of pipe cleaner stuck in there if you jam it in to far. I usually just clean the little bit of carbon that is around the end.

As for the bolt/bolt carrier and reciever I use carb cleaner and then lube it wit mil-tech oil,

Wipeout is a great cleaner, I usually hit the barrel first while I'm cleanig the rest of the weapon. it is a little messy, less so if you use the applicator hose, or you can rig one by using shrink wrap wire coating on the spout.I stick it a couple inches down in the chamber when it foams up it back fills the chamber/ locking lug are. A little goes a long way a couple short squirts is all you need. they make a liquid version that you use like regular solvent but I haven't tried that yet.

If you do decide to use a solvent that harsh contains alot of ammonia, the nylon brushes work well, sometimes the bronze ones will give you a false copper reading on your patches. they wear out after time like all brushes do but I've had pretty good luck with them.Also after I'm done scrubbing with the brush I spray them out with the carb cleaner and lightly roll them on a patch to get some of the crud in the bristles out before i store them .
I myself am more of a soaker than a scrubber.

everyone cleans there weapons different this is just how i do it.

Good Shooting

[Mindflayer]

I've been doing reloads of cotton swabs and brass bushings and I just shoot those. Works great.

In all seriousness, great info. I have to clean out my Ruger....

[gunderwood]

The gas tube actually stays pretty clean, you run more of a risk of getting pieces of pipe cleaner stuck in there if you jam it in to far. I usually just clean the little bit of carbon that is around the end.

My thoughts exactly. The gas tube has no moving parts to bind up and while carbon does build up in it, the pressures are sufficiently high that there really can't be a blockage from nominal use. I have cleaned my gas tube once. Sprayed WipeOut down it. A little carbon came out, but clearly there was only a light layer of it.

If you do decide to use a solvent that harsh contains alot of ammonia, the nylon brushes work well, sometimes the bronze ones will give you a false copper reading on your patches. they wear out after time like all brushes do but I've had pretty good luck with them.Also after I'm done scrubbing with the brush I spray them out with the carb cleaner and lightly roll them on a patch to get some of the crud in the bristles out before i store them .
I myself am more of a soaker than a scrubber.

I don't bother with the nylon. I find that brushes wear out faster from the tight fit with the bore than by the chemicals. Yes, they will give you a false copper reading, but I only brush early in the cleaning process. The brush removes carbon well, but copper should be dissolved. I usually only brush once (many passes) after the initial wet patches have removed the loose carbon.

Are you using carb cleaner indoors? That stuff is potent!

Using alcohol to swab out the oil is the hot tip for first round hits. Cuts down on first round POI shifts tremendously. With high end match grade barrels, there often isn't any POI shift.

[KaosDad]

You guys are teh bomb!!

May I assume these methods apply to all firearms as well? I saw the caustions about checms & wood - got it.

[acguy45]

I don't bother with the nylon. I find that brushes wear out faster from the tight fit with the bore than by the chemicals. Yes, they will give you a false copper reading, but I only brush early in the cleaning process. The brush removes carbon well, but copper should be dissolved. I usually only brush once (many passes) after the initial wet patches have removed the loose carbon.

Are you using carb cleaner indoors? That stuff is potent!

Using alcohol to swab out the oil is the hot tip for first round hits. Cuts down on first round POI shifts tremendously. With high end match grade barrels, there often isn't any POI shift.

The nylon does have a tight fit thats what i go for I generally let my barrel soak to break the crap up a bit before I scrub on it. when they get a little worn down I put a patch over them and its like a scrubbing mop.


no I don't use the carb cleaner indoors my wife would have my a$$.

I will have to try that alcohol tip you mentioned in my other rifles.
I Generally I don't oil my AR barrels I figure the chrome lining is enough as its stored in a controlled enviornment and shoot it quite often.