Is reloading a money saving thing, or a hobby thing?

[KaosDad]

So alot of you all reload. I was going thru the Cabela's web site because I cleaned up the "shop" today and fiund a lot of room perfect for a reloading bench. But then I started looking at prices of components & such. Let's take 7.62 x 39 - SKS rounds. I have the brass, so I need bulllets, primers & powder (ignoring the initial investment in equipment). Hornaday bullets are $22.00/100. CCI primers are $25.99/1000 and poweder is $21.99/pound. So, the component cost per round (assuming 122 gr) is: .22 per bullet, .02 per primer, and .39 in powder (assuming 7000 grains per pound) for a total of .63 per shot. Actually probably more when you count in taxes/shipping/hzmat fees, etc. However, from AIM Surplus I can get 1000 rounds (Wolf) for $200 or .20 per shot.

Now, I understand that shots "I" load will be better quality & such, but .43 better?

Also, I fully understand the whole thing about DIY and the fun/pride that can instill - I used to home brew, but as a business guy I have to look at the economics first. Am I missing something here?

[Vahunter]

I loaded up 500 HP .380's for the wife a couple of weeks ago. I figured I have about $80.00 invested in bullets, brass. powder and primers. I found a good deal on the brass and bullets and that kept the cost way down. From what Iv'e seen a box of 50 quality HP's will cost almost that much. For my hunting rifles I can work up a load which will be much more accurate and perform better than factory loads.

[meadmkr]

I've gotten back into reloading after a 2 decade hiatus... When I was in the service II completed a lot in Metallic silhoutte and NEEDED to handload at the time (money and lack of ammo choices). A few of my group shot TC's in 6mmTCU, 7MM TCU and 30-30. These days ammo selection is much better, just not very reliable at times. I'm wondering why it took me so long to get back into shooting and reloading:(

There are better places for powder, primers and such than Cabelas (such as PowderValley, Grafs, etc). MissouriBullet and rmrbullets.com are just 2 of many good places for lead & plated bullets. One option would be to find a loading-buddy until you get your bench set up. Better yet one or to friends with gear that you might be able to try out BEFORE you invest in them. Same with splitting orders to offset the hazmat fees.

I load for both shotshell and pistol/rifle. Just got a Hornady LNL to complement my Rockchucker although I did look hard at the Dillon. For shotshell I use a Mec Jr and have a MEC 650 coming for Fathers Day. If you get over towards Algonkian Park give me a holler (you're over around Broadlands right?) . I've never loaded for 7.62x39 but have a buddy who does (along with his 7mm-08 and 45ACP).

[meadmkr]

Vahunter - what bullets you using for the .380 ? I picked up some from both MissouriBullet and RMR but haven't tried the yet. Just got my Hornady LNL shell plates in for .380 and am itching to load up a few more boxes for my lil LCP.

Cheers
Chris

[Vahunter]

I bought them off of GunBroker and I can't remember the brand name. They are 95 grain HP's and look very much like Remington Golden Sabers. I'll see if I can come up with a brand name for ya.

[gunderwood]

Rule of thumb. Anything Russian isn't worth reloading. You can beat a State owned factory selling off surplus. Also, the extra accuracy you could get isn't worth it when you are shooting minute of barn.

Reloading most pistols makes sense when you already have the brass. I buy WWB and reload it. All things considered though you probably could work OT (if they pay you for it) and come out ahead.

There is no contest for precision rifle rounds. Factory 338LM is at least $6, but reloads are $2-3. 308Win is around $1, but equivalent factory is nearly $2.

If you load good ammo it saves money. If you want plinking it depends.

[gregj]

I started reloading over the winter, but it wasnt so much for economical reasons as it was availability reasons. Now I know I will always have plenty of ammo on hand, or could have very quickly.

Reloading is economical, but in reality it lets me shoot more for the same $$.

Here's a reloading calculator, you may find interesting. I put in some numbers close to what I'm paying, and it looks like my reloads are costing me about $5 per 50, this would be for 9mm. I can live with that.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

[gatorbait]

Kaos Dad, Maybe I should go back and take another look, but I'm too lazy. Did the calculations you presented on that first post include an allocation of capital equipment costs?

[FirinFlatTop]

Here's a reloading calculator, you may find interesting. I put in some numbers close to what I'm paying, and it looks like my reloads are costing me about $5 per 50, this would be for 9mm. I can live with that.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

Nice calculator. Looks like I went from .40¢a round factory .45acp, to .17¢a round my brand. I'll take it.

[CowboyT]

It depends on the cartridge for which you're loading.

It also depends on whether or not you cast your own.

For my handgun cartridges, I'm saving a bundle. .44 Spl/Mag, and .45 Colt, I'm probably saving $25 a box. For .38 Special, I'm saving about $12/box.

[jdonovan]

. Let's take 7.62 x 39 - SKS rounds. for a total of .63 per shot. Actually probably more when you count in taxes/shipping/hzmat fees, etc. However, from AIM Surplus I can get 1000 rounds (Wolf) for $200 or .20 per shot.

Now, I understand that shots "I" load will be better quality & such, but .43 better?

I used to home brew, but as a business guy I have to look at the economics first. Am I missing something here?

There are certain calibers that its just not economically viable to reload. Back before the big ammo shortage, 9mm was also in a similar situation. However, right now the cheapest 9mm I can find is $0.20/round and I can load for $0.12/round... and the .20 stuff is steel, if we want brass case it comes up to .25/each. So 50% savings... heck ya!

.45 acp $25/box at the store, off my reloading press $7.25/box (of 50)

If we look at personal defense rounds it gets even better. 45acp with Hornday XTP's, $28/20 factory, $5/20 from my basement. If we extend the math... I can do a box of premium ammo for $12/50, and you can buy a box of cheap ball ammo from wall-mart for 2x as much. So I get to practice with ammo that I've performance matched to my carry load for 1/2 the price of cheap ammo. Neat!

Now lets look to the rifles;
Lets go to a common hunting caliber/load. 30-06 with nosler accubonds. $1.50/round factory. $0.40 to hand load.

Even .223 can be a big save right now. I'm at 3.65/20 (.18/round) and good factory brass case ammo is 0.45 or more.

I also shoot some big/exotic rifles and this is where you can make a HUGE savings if you hand load, 458 Lott as example. The .458 is $4-$7 PER ROUND in factory ammo. My load $1.29/each for range ammo, and about $2.00 for dangerous game loads.

So you need to reload things that make sense to do so, both from an economics, and a volume perspective. If you shoot one box of 20 from your 30-06 a year then it will take a decade to make back the cost of dies, caliber conversion kit, tool head just to get setup to load it. Plus costs in load development etc... I can reload 12ga, but I only save about $0.25/box. Its not worth my time to save a quarter.

-JD

[KaosDad]

Ah, OK - thanks all. Guess next time I should run the numbers on more than one ammo type.

[Eddeegan]

If this helps, here you go.

My wife and I are both competitive shooters. Right now we are on a sabbatical, but our normal consumption is 2k rounds a month. Before bigger matches and when we can practice the quantity goes up.

We have a $2k investment in our press. Dillon 650 with trimmings. There are aftermarket items that I am glad we switched to (U-die and FCD) that we found increases the quality and reduces the rejection rate. We did a ton of research and we bought well. We also bought the equipment to load 9mm and 40. You can legitimately load 100 rounds in 5 minutes, but we dont go nearly that fast.

Our 45 load is a 230 grain MG, 4.2 clays, federal 150 primers. Our cost per box (50) is $8.57. http://www.classifiercalc.com/misc_calcs/rc.php
After 12,000 rounds loaded, the press and associated components were paid for. Keep in mind, that the above costing software does not include things like walnut media (~$1 a pound), and case lube ($10 per can which lasts about 4k rounds) if you are interested in breaking it down even further.

We got into reloading because it became cost prohibitive. We store our powder in a magazine (2 layers of 3/4" plywood) and the primers in our ammo safe.

The most important thing we have found, is that we dont save a dime, but we do shoot a lot more.

[CowboyT]

I can reload 12ga, but I only save about $0.25/box. Its not worth my time to save a quarter.
-JD

Unless you shoot slugs, that's true. Birdshot rounds are pretty cheap. But if you do shoot slugs, that's close to a buck a round even for the Remington Sluggers at Wal-Mart. Go anywhere else and it's more than that.

That's another great example of casting your own projectiles reducing the cost way, way down.

[nickf829]

If you cast your own and pay for the lead, its still way cheaper than store bought for most handgun loads, I know nothing about rifle loads, sorry. However, if you get the lead for free, and you already have the brass, than you are talking about shooting say a .45 for the price it costs to shoot a .22 ($0.05/rd).

Take $0.05/rd compared to the $0.38/rd you pay for Walmart Winchester .45, you are saving $1.00 per every 3 rounds, or $1000 after 3000 rounds... Those 3000 rounds will only cost you approximately $150 to load, whereas $150 will only get you roughly 400 rds of WWB from wally world. So in THIS scenario, after 3000 rounds, the reloading equipment has paid for itself and you had a lot of fun saving that $1000.

Or, if you buy your own bullets (anything but cast) and brass (hopefully you can collect enough to not have to buy it for some time as brass isn't cheap), then you aren't really saving much money, but you can tailor loads to your exact requirements... this method saves little/no money, but good for certain people.

Not realy related but sort of is.. I don't know the legitimacy of this claim, but it makes sense considering the number of scumbag defense attorney's that grace our world... The guy I got my CHP through a guy that runs a shop in Linden and during the class he told a story of a guy who loaded and I believe cast his own personal defense ammo, and unfortunately had to use it to defend himself legally and rightfully. However, the scumbag defense attorney was able to determine the bullet was cast and handloaded, and since it was so, the attorney was able to say the victim PLANNED to cause grave harm to an individual, which happened to be this scumbag "bad guy" that held the victim up at gunpoint. The attorney said the victim was pretty much looking for trouble and thats why he loaded his own personal defense ammo and if I remember correctly, was able to consider the shooting premeditated even though the victim did not know the perp, did not know his life was going to be in danger, and the victim lost everything as a result.

Like I said, I can't verify anything about the story other than that I did indeed hear it from someone else, but it makes sense considering the number of scumbags and almost equal number of defense attorneys. So I know paying $25 for 20 personal defense rounds sucks, but its better than getting sued for everything, or worse, going to prison, for defending yourself legally.

[gunderwood]

So I know paying $25 for 20 personal defense rounds sucks, but its better than getting sued for everything, or worse, going to prison, for defending yourself legally.

Or you could check out TDS at Ricks .org site and get a box of 50 for that price give or take.

[zephyp]

@Nick - I've read similar accounts where a prosecutor used hand loads as "pre-meditation." Not good and much safer on all counts to use good ole factory loads for PD. Just my $0.02.

[CowboyT]

That sounds a lot more like a prosecuting attorney, actually. And yes, too many of them are simply interested in getting the conviction ("stat") than actually administering real and true justice. A competent defense attorney could easily destroy such an allegation of "premeditation" or "intent to do grevious harm" based on using handloads.

Factory loads are preferable to avoid all that, sure. But if all you've got is your handloads, and the BG is breaking through your window/door, then USE 'EM! As the old sage saith, "'tis better to be judged by 12 than carried by six."

[CowboyT]

The cost difference gets far greater as you go more powerful. Here's a little cost comparison between hot .45 Colt handloads and the equivalent that you'd buy.

My .45LC "Magnum" with a 255gr Lee boolit costs just under $6.00/box (of 50) to make. That's out the door, including price of the lead.

By comparison, here are two hot "factory loads" for this cartridge, from MidwayUSA's catalog. One's a cast bullet load, and the other's a JHP. Both are boxes of 20.

Grizzly Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) +P 260 Grain Cast: $34.99/box (of 20, not 50)
Buffalo Bore Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) +P 260 Grain JHP: $33.99/box (of 20, not 50)

That works out to about $80/box of 50 if you buy factory ammo. Compare that to just under $6. Somethin' to make ya go, "Hmmmmm......"

[gunderwood]

The cost difference gets far greater as you go more powerful. Here's a little cost comparison between hot .45 Colt handloads and the equivalent that you'd buy.

My .45LC "Magnum" with a 255gr Lee boolit costs just under $6.00/box (of 50) to make. That's out the door, including price of the lead.

By comparison, here are two hot "factory loads" for this cartridge, from MidwayUSA's catalog. One's a cast bullet load, and the other's a JHP. Both are boxes of 20.

Grizzly Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) +P 260 Grain Cast: $34.99/box (of 20, not 50)
Buffalo Bore Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) +P 260 Grain JHP: $33.99/box (of 20, not 50)

That works out to about $80/box of 50 if you buy factory ammo. Compare that to just under $6. Somethin' to make ya go, "Hmmmmm......"

Does that include the cost of brass? To find the average cost of the rounds, you need to divide the brass cost by the total number of reloads.