traveler to VA looking for clarification on laws

[Lee]

I've spent the last couple hours trying to read about VA gun laws, but I'm still not 100% clear on a couple things and would like a confirmation on the others. I have a PA LTCF and generally open carry, but would rather not be hasseled/detained/arrested while in VA so will probably CC. I was wanting to go to Virginia Beach next week, but now the wife wants to go this week, so I'm posting because of the short notice (still trying to read btw).

So far this is what I've gathered from reading various websites (not sure on their reliability) and trying to understand the actual legal wording:

* Hallow points are legal.

* VA recognizes my PA LTCF and in every way is treated like a VA resident CHP.

* Magazines with capacities less than or equal to (but not greater than) 20 rounds are OK and the following guns are legal to carry -- Springfield Armory 1911TRP, S&W M&P 9C, Kahr CW9.

* There are no laws prohibiting printing and (obvious) printing is still considered concealed.

* Carrying with a round in the chamber is legal, even in a vehicle.

* In a vehicle the gun must be fully visible, so on my hip doesn't count? Do I have to unholster it and put it on the dash/between the driver/passenger seats at all times? Seems unsafe to me.

* I do not have to inform an officer that I have a firearm during any type of stop (vehicle or on foot).

* During a traffic stop I only have to provide my PA DL, vehicle registration, and proof of insurance (I do not have to provide my PA LTCF).

* OC is required in places that serve alcohol (until July 1st), but is there required signage so that I know if a place serves alcohol before entering or is it just best to OC if not sure?

* How does this apply to a hotel that may contain a bar/resturant that serves alcohol? Is OC required in the entire building, or just the room(s) that actually serves alcohol?

* Is there a legal definition of OC? What I mean is, if I'm using an IWB holster, is tucking my shirt behind the grip considered OC?

Responses are greatly appreciated.

[Vahunter]

So far this is what I've gathered from reading various websites (not sure on their reliability) and trying to understand the actual legal wording:

* Hallow points are legal. Yes

* VA recognizes my PA LTCF and in every way is treated like a VA resident CHP.
Don't know what you mean by that but Va.does recognize Pa. CHP

* Magazines with capacities less than or equal to (but not greater than) 20 rounds are OK and the following guns are legal to carry -- Springfield Armory 1911TRP, S&W M&P 9C, Kahr CW9. 20 or more round mags if you have a CHP

* There are no laws prohibiting printing and (obvious) printing is still considered concealed. Not that I know of

* Carrying with a round in the chamber is legal, even in a vehicle. Yes why would anyone not jave a round chambered ?

* In a vehicle the gun must be fully visible, so on my hip doesn't count? Do I have to unholster it and put it on the dash/between the driver/passenger seats at all times? Seems unsafe to me. If you have a CHP or it's not within reach it can be concealed

* I do not have to inform an officer that I have a firearm during any type of stop (vehicle or on foot). That's correct

* During a traffic stop I only have to provide my PA DL, vehicle registration, and proof of insurance (I do not have to provide my PA LTCF). Provide only what your'e asked for

* OC is required in places that serve alcohol (until July 1st), but is there required signage so that I know if a place serves alcohol before entering or is it just best to OC if not sure? Most places post a sign if it's ABC on.

* How does this apply to a hotel that may contain a bar/resturant that serves alcohol? Is OC required in the entire building, or just the room(s) that actually serves alcohol? As far as I know only in the bar/resturant

* Is there a legal definition of OC? What I mean is, if I'm using an IWB holster, is tucking my shirt behind the grip considered OC? That's called the "Va Tuck" not saying it's legal but I've been doing it for years.



Hope that helps/

[wally626]

So far this is what I've gathered from reading various websites (not sure on their reliability) and trying to understand the actual legal wording:

* Hallow points are legal.

Yes.

* VA recognizes my PA LTCF and in every way is treated like a VA resident CHP.

Yes, a PA permit is recognized. The VA permit only applies to carry of pistols not other weapons.

* Magazines with capacities less than or equal to (but not greater than) 20 rounds are OK and the following guns are legal to carry -- Springfield Armory 1911TRP, S&W M&P 9C, Kahr CW9.

The magazine limit only applies to public carry by non-permit holder and only in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William

* There are no laws prohibiting printing and (obvious) printing is still considered concealed.

Yes, since open carry is legal there is no issue with printing. The only caveat is that if you are open carrying (and do not have a permit for conceal carry) you must be sure the gun is recognizable as a gun and is visible to common observation.

*

Carrying with a round in the chamber is legal, even in a vehicle.

Yes, a chambered round is legal if you are in a situation where you can have a loaded gun.

* In a vehicle the gun must be fully visible, so on my hip doesn't count? Do I have to unholster it and put it on the dash/between the driver/passenger seats at all times? Seems unsafe to me.

After July 1st this changes but if you do not have a permit the gun has to be unloaded and stored out of reach of the driver. A loaded pistol can be left in plain view. Longs guns have to be unloaded. If you have a permit a pistol can be anywhere you want in the vehicle, including on your person. There has been some discussion on wether or not a pistol in an open carry holster is considered concealed while you are in the vehicle but this is not an issue with a permit.

* I do not have to inform an officer that I have a firearm during any type of stop (vehicle or on foot).

No you do not have to inform when stopped, Open carry of a weapon is also not grounds to stop a person for questioning.

* During a traffic stop I only have to provide my PA DL, vehicle registration, and proof of insurance (I do not have to provide my PA LTCF).

Yes.

* OC is required in places that serve alcohol (until July 1st), but is there required signage so that I know if a place serves alcohol before entering or is it just best to OC if not sure?

Restaurants that serve alcohol will have a ABC (Alcohol Board of Control?) sign somewhere near the entrance, usually also a list of ABC managers.

* How does this apply to a hotel that may contain a bar/resturant that serves alcohol? Is OC required in the entire building, or just the room(s) that actually serves alcohol?

In the case of hotels just the bar and restaurants. Note, any private property owner can bar weapons on their property, most that do, do not post signs. If you open carry in a restaurant or other private property and are asked to leave you must do so or face trespassing charges. This is less of an issue with concealed carry in non-restaraunt environments, but even concealed you would have to leave if asked. Some businesses do post no-gun signs and these should honored.

* Is there a legal definition of OC? What I mean is, if I'm using an IWB holster, is tucking my shirt behind the grip considered OC?

The gun must be visible to common observation. A IWB holster with just the grip showing is fine, but you have to be careful with the Virginia Tuck that the shirt stays tucked.

Responses are greatly appreciated.

[Lee]

Thanks for the responses guys, sounds like most of the info I had gathered was correct except I thought the 20 round mag limit applied to everyone (not that I'll have more than 12 round mags anyway) and the vehicle carry (I thought the firearm had to be in plain view even with a permit).

I thought there was state preemption in VA, but specific cities were mentioned for the magazine limit. Are there any other city specific laws I need to know of (I intend to be in the Virginia Beach area).

My mistake on not spelling out LTCF (License To Carry Firearms) being that this isn't a PA forum, but it's basically our CHP.

[t33j]

Thanks for the responses guys, sounds like most of the info I had gathered was correct except I thought the 20 round mag limit applied to everyone (not that I'll have more than 12 round mags anyway) and the vehicle carry (I thought the firearm had to be in plain view even with a permit).

I open carry (right hip, visible out of the passenger window) in my car and I know of about a dozen other people that have never had a problem with it.

I'm sure there is some case law around concerning the Virgina Tuck. I've never carried that way myself but I know a lot of people that prefer it for some reason.

I thought there was state preemption in VA, but specific cities were mentioned for the magazine limit. Are there any other city specific laws I need to know of (I intend to be in the Virginia Beach area).

There is, and you are correct except that the law concerning mag limits is not a local ordinance.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... 18.2-287.4

My mistake on not spelling out LTCF (License To Carry Firearms) being that this isn't a PA forum, but it's basically our CHP.

Are most of the things you listed not legal in PA?

Is there a legal definition of OC? What I mean is, if I'm using an IWB holster, is tucking my shirt behind the grip considered OC?

In one word no. In the interest of avoiding a civics discussion suffice it to say that the law only specifies what is is illegal to do namely, http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-308.

[cigarmanva]

Are most of the things you listed not legal in PA?
.

pa and va are pretty similar on what's allowed. Where the real distinction comes in is when you can shoot and not shoot...according to what I've read

[t33j]

I should clarify my last part. I was referring to a legal definition of OC with my last two sentences.

[gunderwood]

Just a thought, but should we create a sticky (with a disclaimer of course) about visiting VA with another states CC? When I travel it always is a pain trying to find good resources for that states CC laws. I know there are other sites out there that try and compile this info, but look up VA and you will see they miss a lot of the details. When CC or OC details matter.

[allingeneral]

Just a thought, but should we create a sticky (with a disclaimer of course) about visiting VA with another states CC? When I travel it always is a pain trying to find good resources for that states CC laws. I know there are other sites out there that try and compile this info, but look up VA and you will see they miss a lot of the details. When CC or OC details matter.

I would be happy to either sticky it or link to it from the left menu area.

Care to help finish off the following list?

If you have a Concealed Carry Permit from a state that is recognized by Virginia:
- Open Carry allowed anywhere except the following:
- Court Houses
- School grounds (K-12) - within 1,000 feet
- Federal property (including US Post Offices)
- Private property that is properly posted (i.e. No Firearms allowed on this property)
- Concealed Carry anywhere that OC is allowed (except restaurants that serve alcohol, which goes away July 1 2010)

If you do not have a Concealed Carry permit or your state is not reciprocal with Virginia:
- Open Carry allowed anywhere except the following:
- Court Houses
- School grounds (K-12)
- Federal property (including US Post Offices)
- Private property that is properly posted (i.e. No Firearms allowed on this property)
- No Magazines over 20 rounds

[9MMDerringer]

I have a question. If a store or business has posted a sign that basically shows that guns are not welcome, for example a picture of a gun with a circle and a line drawn through it, or lets use Potomac Mills Shopping Mall for example, where they have firearms prohibited on their sign by the entrance doors, can someone conceal carrying inside those places with a permit, be charged with a crime? Or, would the security simply make you leave the property?

[allingeneral]

If I understand correctly, you will be given one opportunity to leave or be charged with trespassing. i.e. "I didn't see the sign - sorry, will leave the premises immediately"

[t33j]

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-119

If a sign is up "where it may be reasonably seen" then you do not have to be asked to leave before you can be charged. If you are asked to leave (weather or not there is a sign), you must do so or you can be charged.

Note also: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic ... reme+court

allingeneral speaks of a trespass notice (sometimes given by police) which is the, "after being forbidden to do so" part.

[Lee]

Are most of the things you listed not legal in PA?

Most of the questions on my list were carry related questions I thought would be relevent to me and saw mentioned on VA gun related sites or knew to be illegal in other states (not VA or PA specifically). Most of the questions I had found answers to prior to asking, but just wanted a sort of extra confirmation that I understood what I already read. Seems to me VA and PA are pretty much the same with the following exceptions:

* PA carry in a vehicle isn't allowed without a permit (LTCF) unless it's carried to/from shooting range, gun shop/smith, home, or fixed place of business and even in these special cases the gun still needs to be unloaded, inaccessible to driver, ammo in separate container. There's a few other exceptions, but for practical purposes if you're going to carry in a car you need a LTCF. There is an exception that a permit from ANY state allows you to carry in a vehicle however you wish (loaded, on your hip for example), but concealing outside the vehicle would require a LTCF or permit from a state with reciprocity.

* OC in PA is legal without any license/permit provided that you're not in a vehicle or in Philadelphia (aside from that there's no locality specific laws in PA).

* No mag limits anywhere in PA (so you could OC a 1911 with a 40 round drum magazine without a license).

* Resturants/alcohol serving places aren't treated any different from any other location, so CC (with license/permit) or OC (without license/permit) in a bar is OK.