Question about Glocks

[WRW]

The son-in-law loaded his pistol for me and I noticed he "rode" the slide to battery instead of letting it fly on it's own. I put the gun on the target and touched the trigger and got a discharge. Subsequent firings required a normal trigger pull, but that first round really concerned me. When I described it to him, he said he had noticed that sometimes and, when questioned about it said yes, it was always on the first round. I'm just wondering if there is some correlation between his actions and the amount of trigger pull required to get a discharge. I did let him know that he should let the spring do the work, either by using the slide release of letting go of the slide after pulling back on it.

[OakRidgeStars]

It's never a good idea to "ride the slide" on any semi-auto pistol. Pull it back and let it slam home as it was designed to do.

I don't see any way that could cause a difference in trigger pull being that the Glock is a DA only pistol. That being said, I'm no expert on Glocks by any means.

[gunderwood]

The only time it is a good idea to hold onto the slide when closing it is when there is no round being chambered (cleaning, checking if it is loaded, etc.). Releasing the slide with no round to be chambered causes the slide/frame to slam which isn't good for lockup. People get use to seeing the slide run like that when checking guns out and then don't change over to a clean release when shooting them.

Has he done any mods to the gun? Lighter springs, 3.5lbs trigger?

I would check the Glocks lockup when he runs the slide. The breech may be partially locked up. Glocks partially cock the striker (firing pin) when the slide is cycled. The trigger, when pulled, finishes cocking the striker and then releases it. The recoil spring must be strong enough to resist this finished cocking of the striker. Here is what I would check:

1. Dry fire the gun. On a Glock, since the recoil spring must resist the striker spring, a worn out recoil spring will allow the slide to slightly move rearward when dry firing. I.e. the trigger pull tries to finish cocking the striker, but the recoil spring can't 100% resist that movement so the slide moves slightly to the rear. It really is a tiny amount though and if you don't know what you are looking for it is easy to miss. The gun will still usually fire in this condition.

This probably isn't it since you said it only happens on the first round. If you understand the mechanism though, it makes sense how running the slide like he does on the first round may allow the gun to lock up, but not fully. That would exhibit the same symptoms as a bad spring and go away for the rest. Since less work is being done by the trigger, it will feel lighter. This only works on striker fired guns like Glocks.

A second way to check the recoil spring, which works on most pistols, is to:
A. Unload it (duh)
B. Point the pistol vertically
C. Pull the slide back just a little bit and release
If the recoil spring is good it will immediately overcome gravity and lock up tight. Some guns it won't finish locking up and on others it will just feel very sluggish. I had a SIG .357SIG that I just replaced the recoil spring in. Being a SIG it locked up fine, but using this test it felt sluggish. Replaced the spring and now it locks up tight and quick. The pistol sometimes felt like the slide was slow to cycle, which is why I looked into it.

2. If he has done mods to the gun, try the original parts. The above could be greatly exasperated if he installed a 3.5lb (or lighter) trigger bar, reduced recoil spring, reduced striker spring, reduced trigger spring. All of that could add up to a very light trigger under the above circumstances.

[WRW]

OK, there's some good information there. I asked him at that time if he had any snap caps with him, hoping to start a process of elimination, but they were left at home. BTW, new gun, 450 rounds fired, no mods.

On a side note, while attempting to research this I found that the slide release can possibly wear to the point of breaking if used for releasing the slide on a regular basis.

[totes6]

If you look at the manual you will see that Glock (and I assume most other companies) call it the "Slide Stop" not the slide release. I have also heard and read similar reports of the slide stop being worn down to the point that it will no longer keep the slide locked back when you repeatedly use the slide stop to release the slide. I don't see an issue using it to release the slide in an emergency situation when your second hand is otherwise occupied/immobile. But everything I have seen/heard for regular usage is that you should pull the slide back and release it free to let it fly home.

[WRW]

If you look at the manual you will see that Glock (and I assume most other companies) call it the "Slide Stop" not the slide release. I have also heard and read similar reports of the slide stop being worn down to the point that it will no longer keep the slide locked back when you repeatedly use the slide stop to release the slide. I don't see an issue using it to release the slide in an emergency situation when your second hand is otherwise occupied/immobile. But everything I have seen/heard for regular usage is that you should pull the slide back and release it free to let it fly home.

Yeah, you are right. The external portion of the slide stop is what is used to release the slide...hence my usage of the word.

[novasig226r]

It's never a good idea to "ride the slide" on any semi-auto pistol. Pull it back and let it slam home as it was designed to do.

I don't see any way that could cause a difference in trigger pull being that the Glock is a DA only pistol. That being said, I'm no expert on Glocks by any means.

Not to split hairs so please don't take this as a jab, but a Glock isn't a true DA pistol. I've seen them referred to as DA, as SA, and as SA Striker Fired. Since the Glock is cocked by motion of the slide, and not the trigger, it doesn't serve the definition of DA very well.

For example, on my Sig, I can pull the trigger as many times as I want to and can see/feel/hear the "click" of the fire controls. On the Glock 23 I had a few years ago, unless I racked the slide, I could pull the trigger as many times as I wanted and nothing happened until I first racked the slide (or did the "half-rack" to reengage the sear).

If one takes a cleared Glock and pulls the trigger it will click. Pull the trigger again, nothing. Rack the slide and pull the trigger, click. Pull the trigger again, nothing. This is SA behavior. The added trigger travel of the Glock feels like DA, but this is a "feel good safety" since normal SA trigger are generally short.
Here's a nice little write-up of this.

[gunderwood]

It's never a good idea to "ride the slide" on any semi-auto pistol. Pull it back and let it slam home as it was designed to do.

I don't see any way that could cause a difference in trigger pull being that the Glock is a DA only pistol. That being said, I'm no expert on Glocks by any means.

Not to split hairs so please don't take this as a jab, but a Glock isn't a true DA pistol. I've seen them referred to as DA, as SA, and as SA Striker Fired. Since the Glock is cocked by motion of the slide, and not the trigger, it doesn't serve the definition of DA very well.

For example, on my Sig, I can pull the trigger as many times as I want to and can see/feel/hear the "click" of the fire controls. On the Glock 23 I had a few years ago, unless I racked the slide, I could pull the trigger as many times as I wanted and nothing happened until I first racked the slide (or did the "half-rack" to reengage the sear).

If one takes a cleared Glock and pulls the trigger it will click. Pull the trigger again, nothing. Rack the slide and pull the trigger, click. Pull the trigger again, nothing. This is SA behavior. The added trigger travel of the Glock feels like DA, but this is a "feel good safety" since normal SA trigger are generally short.

Here's a nice little write-up of this.

This is correct, but it really isn't a true SA either. The striker is slightly pulled back by the trigger, which is why competition guns replace the striker spring with a lighter spring to make the trigger better.

http://www.ghostinc.com/product/WGM_RPK ... locks.html

[novasig226r]

It's never a good idea to "ride the slide" on any semi-auto pistol. Pull it back and let it slam home as it was designed to do.

I don't see any way that could cause a difference in trigger pull being that the Glock is a DA only pistol. That being said, I'm no expert on Glocks by any means.

Not to split hairs so please don't take this as a jab, but a Glock isn't a true DA pistol. I've seen them referred to as DA, as SA, and as SA Striker Fired. Since the Glock is cocked by motion of the slide, and not the trigger, it doesn't serve the definition of DA very well.

For example, on my Sig, I can pull the trigger as many times as I want to and can see/feel/hear the "click" of the fire controls. On the Glock 23 I had a few years ago, unless I racked the slide, I could pull the trigger as many times as I wanted and nothing happened until I first racked the slide (or did the "half-rack" to reengage the sear).

If one takes a cleared Glock and pulls the trigger it will click. Pull the trigger again, nothing. Rack the slide and pull the trigger, click. Pull the trigger again, nothing. This is SA behavior. The added trigger travel of the Glock feels like DA, but this is a "feel good safety" since normal SA trigger are generally short.

Here's a nice little write-up of this.

This is correct, but it really isn't a true SA either. The striker is slightly pulled back by the trigger, which is why competition guns replace the striker spring with a lighter spring to make the trigger better.

http://www.ghostinc.com/product/WGM_RPK ... locks.html

It may be paranoia on my part, but this is one reason I never was comfortable with my Glock. Probably unfounded, but I guess I'm old school. If there is a de-cock lever, manual safety, a grip safety, etc then I feel much better about shoving a pistol in a holster, case, fanny pack, concealment jacket, etc.

I have no faith in that split-trigger "safety" thing. But, to each their own. If one is a proud Glock owner then rock on. A (law abiding) gun owner is a friend in my book. My good friend in Georgia is a happy Glock owner (and Armalite, S&W, Kimber, Sig, Colt, Berreta, etc.) and we would shoot frequently together. Still can't believe he was able to keep all those actions straight in his head!

This actually gives me pause. How many folks out there own firearm XYZ and really, truthfully and honestly, have no idea about how it works beyond "add bullets and Pew! Pew! Pew!" Example: I'd like to get a 1911 pattern pistol (Sig or Kimber), and I went scoping for schematics of the fire control boxes to learn why and how those pistols can be safely carried in Condition 1. Once I read and studied the diagrams, I became more confident that that things are really safe to carry in that manner.

Nothing wrong with education.

[gunderwood]

The two best safeties ever created are your trigger finger and your head. Use those correctly and "accidents" don't happen.

[novasig226r]

The two best safeties ever created are your trigger finger and your head. Use those correctly and "accidents" don't happen.

"Well, this is my safety." <wiggles trigger finger>

I loved that line in "Blackhawk Down" which Eric Bana's character "Hoot" said.