Confounded by all the laws and regulations

[novasig226r]

I consider myself to be a fairly well educated man. I've had a bit of classroom instruction on legal research and constitutional law while in college. However, no matter how often I read the local, state, and federal laws regarding firearms I find myself questioning my previous "understanding". There are far too many rules to keep straight, and I wonder if one day I will find myself on the wrong side of the law. Even a minor slip can land one in jail. Fines can be just as devastating to one's family security as one's incarceration.

Let me list a few situations as plain and straight forward as I can manage. These questions all apply within the Commonwealth of Virginia. The question of concealed applies only to a valid CHP holder:

1) Carry in a national park. Open? Concealed?
2) Carry in a state park. Open? Concealed?
3) Carry in a Northern Virginia Regional Parks Authority park. Open? Concealed?
4) Carry near a school, but not on school ground (i.e. the sidewalk around the perimiter. Open? Concealed?
5) Carry on the Blue Ridge Parkway. Open? Concealed?

The list could go on and on, and one misunderstanding, misreading, misinterpretation, etc. can be very, very costly both in terms of money and your freedom.

For example, the Code of the Town of Leesburg, Section 26-24 (5) says:

Hunting and firearms. No person in a park shall hunt, trap or pursue wildlife at any time. No person shall within a park use, carry, or possess firearms of any description, unless he is the authorized holder of a valid commonwealth concealed weapons permit. Such a permit must be on their person when carrying any concealed weapon within the boundaries of any town park. No person within a park shall carry or possess air rifles, spring guns, bow and arrows, slings, or any other forms of weapons potentially dangerous to wildlife and to human safety or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges, or any kind of trapping device. Discharging firearms into park areas from beyond park property boundaries is forbidden.

(bold emphasis mine)

Now, it says that no one may carry a firearm into a park unless he has a CHP. It then says that the CHP must be in his possession if he carries concealed (and that's Virginia Code that CHP holders know). But can I carry openly since I have a valid CHP? In other words, the code says I cannot carry/possess a firearm without a CHP (which I have). However, it seems to also simply reiterate the Code of Virginia with regards to concealed carry and the requirement to have the permit on hand. It is this sort of conundrum that makes this legal hoop jumping such a travesty. I should also point out that the Code of Leesburg mentions a concealed weapons permit, of which the Commonwealth has none.

As to carry in a national park, Section 512, P.L. 111-24 (ironically part the Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009) says that a law-abiding citizen may carry a functional and assembled firearm onto a National Park and National Wildlife Refuge. It doesn't say "open" nor does it say "concealed", just that you may possess. I especially love part (a)(1) of that law. Spells out the 2A rather clearly.

Did I have a question? I don't remember. Maybe someone can answer the one about the GFSZ. I'd hate to stroll in my neighborhood while openly carrying (or concealed carrying for that matter) since I don't know if all those daycare centers have a "private" learning environment.

[gunderwood]

Relax. The laws, not just gun laws, are so complex and numerous the reality is that we break several of them everyday. You only have to worry if the government decides to make an example of you or if you break something so obvious they are forced to do something. In which case, they will find 42 things to charge you with. If the police, the states enforcing agents, can't keep track of the law how are we too? Most of what we call law any more is a joke and a façade. Try making sense of it will only make you crazy.

And now bills were passed, not only for national objects but for individual cases, and laws were most numerous when the commonwealth was most corrupt. -- Gaius Cornelius Tacitus, Annals 117, Book III

/sarcasm...just in case you missed it.

[novasig226r]

And now bills were passed, not only for national objects but for individual cases, and laws were most numerous when the commonwealth was most corrupt. -- Gaius Cornelius Tacitus, Annals 117, Book III

I like that. How did you come across that? I'm always looking for new (old?) references to political philosophy.

/sarcasm...just in case you missed it.

I did, but I still have to because I read on the Internet that "they're" after us.

[gunderwood]

And now bills were passed, not only for national objects but for individual cases, and laws were most numerous when the commonwealth was most corrupt. -- Gaius Cornelius Tacitus, Annals 117, Book III

I like that. How did you come across that? I'm always looking for new (old?) references to political philosophy.

More modern sources usually rephrase it to: "The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state (or government)." Something I read somewhere used such a reference. I simply looked up the original.

[ProShooter]

Maybe someone can answer the one about the GFSZ. I'd hate to stroll in my neighborhood while openly carrying (or concealed carrying for that matter) since I don't know if all those daycare centers have a "private" learning environment.

Regarding the GFSZ - you can carry, either openly or concealed within 1000 feet of the school if you have a Virginia CHP (must be a Va CHP). Also, you can carry concealed in your vehicle in the parking lot, bus loop etc if you stay in the car and the gun stays concealed.

Also, most day care centers are not really schools.

[gunderwood]

Maybe someone can answer the one about the GFSZ. I'd hate to stroll in my neighborhood while openly carrying (or concealed carrying for that matter) since I don't know if all those daycare centers have a "private" learning environment.

Regarding the GFSZ - you can carry, either openly or concealed within 1000 feet of the school if you have a Virginia CHP (must be a Va CHP). Also, you can carry concealed in your vehicle in the parking lot, bus loop etc if you stay in the car and the gun stays concealed.

Also, most day care centers are not really schools.

Is that 1000 feet from the building or edge of the property? What if a private residence of business is within 1000 feet?

[novasig226r]

Also, most day care centers are not really schools.

That's part of the problem, though. What defines a "school" and a "not really a school". I know the code speaks of public and private schools, parochial or otherwise. (Some churches have K-5, K-12, etc.)

And what constitutes the 1000'. From the fence line? From the buildings? What if (empty) public lands are adjacent to a school and somewhere some land grant gives the school ownership?

If one goes into a park while carrying (OC or CC, matters not), what becomes of the rules when a school "function" is in place? Just by the kids? The whole park?

I don't think it's too paranoid to imagine some child telling Teacher that there is a man with a gun, and finding oneself in a whole heap of trouble. Potentially. Possibly.

[ProShooter]

Maybe someone can answer the one about the GFSZ. I'd hate to stroll in my neighborhood while openly carrying (or concealed carrying for that matter) since I don't know if all those daycare centers have a "private" learning environment.

Regarding the GFSZ - you can carry, either openly or concealed within 1000 feet of the school if you have a Virginia CHP (must be a Va CHP). Also, you can carry concealed in your vehicle in the parking lot, bus loop etc if you stay in the car and the gun stays concealed.

Also, most day care centers are not really schools.

Is that 1000 feet from the building or edge of the property? What if a private residence of business is within 1000 feet?

I have always known the law to be 1000 ft from the edge of the property. Private residences are private and excluded..

[ProShooter]

Also, most day care centers are not really schools.

That's part of the problem, though. What defines a "school" and a "not really a school". I know the code speaks of public and private schools, parochial or otherwise. (Some churches have K-5, K-12, etc.) - It would have to be " the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds". If a church has an attached K-12 school, then its a school. A day care center, a church with an after school care program - these are not schools.

And what constitutes the 1000'. From the fence line? From the buildings? What if (empty) public lands are adjacent to a school and somewhere some land grant gives the school ownership? 1000' from the property line of the school.

If one goes into a park while carrying (OC or CC, matters not), what becomes of the rules when a school "function" is in place? Just by the kids? The whole park? You would have to be in "that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place" to be in violation. If the area being used is not exclusive to the school use, then you'd be fine. For example, if the Richmond Zoo was closed to the public for "Johnson Elementary School day" then you couldnt carry there. If you went to the zoo and happened upon a 5th grade field trip that was visiting the zoo just like you were, then there's no problem.

You may be interested in a class that we do that covers the laws - http://proactiveshooters.com/general-co ... rry-in-va/