State's police chiefs seek veto of guns-in-bars bill

[OakRidgeStars]

There is a poll in the article. Let's hit it now!

---

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/03/states- ... nbars-bill


VIRGINIA BEACH - Calling guns in bars a "recipe for disaster," the state's police chiefs have pleaded with Gov. Bob McDonnell to veto legislation that would ease Virginia's concealed weapon laws.

Virginia Beach police Chief Jake Jacocks Jr. sent a letter to McDonnell last week on behalf of the state association of chiefs comparing the combination of firearms and alcohol with drinking and driving.

"We can fully expect that at some point in the future a disagreement that today would likely end up in a verbal confrontation, or a bar fight, will inevitably end with gunfire if you sign this legislation into law," Jacocks wrote.

SB334's requirement that anybody with a gun is prohibited from drinking and could be charged with a misdemeanor is "absurd," Jacocks said, and can't be enforced.

On Tuesday, Jacocks got support from Virginia Beach Mayor Will Sessoms, a McDonnell supporter and gun owner.

"Not only is it stupid," Sessoms said, "I think it could be a fatal mistake."

But their efforts seem unlikely to sway McDonnell.

McDonnell will sign the bill, said Taylor Thornley, the governor's spokeswoman. While McDonnell appreciates the work and comments of the police chiefs, he will "continue to protect and uphold the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens," Thornley said.

The bill deals only with concealed weapons; in Virginia it's legal to carry a gun openly without a permit.

SB334 and its House counterpart, along with legislation that allows gun owners without concealed-carry permits to store firearms in locked vehicle compartments, were among the gun-friendly bills approved by the General Assembly this year. The Democratic-controlled Senate formed a special subcommittee late in the session to kill several gun-rights bills, including a repeal of the state's one-handgun-purchase-a-month limit.

The police chiefs association has opposed the guns in bars bill in the past, but it also had a more sympathetic ear. Former Democratic Gov. Timothy M. Kaine twice vetoed such bills.

The Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police didn't come out strongly against the bills during the session because it was spread too thin trying to preserve state funding for police departments, said Dana Schrad, the organization's executive director.

"We didn't duck and cover on this one," Schrad said. "We had to prioritize on budget issues."

The Virginia Sheriffs' Association, the other large law-enforcement lobby in the General Assembly, did not take a stand on the legislation, said John Jones, the organization's executive director.

"No, we're not going down that road," Jones said.

But association members recently did vote on a resolution supporting Second Amendment rights, Jones said.

Jacocks and Schrad did acknowledge that the letter was a last-ditch effort.

"It was important to let him know directly how we felt about this issue," Jacocks said.

If police across Virginia see an increase in gun violence at bars, the association will come back and ask the General Assembly to reconsider its decision, Schrad said.

Statistics on gun-related incidents at establishments with liquor licenses were not available Tuesday.

[zephyp]

Not an all too bad article. At least they didnt swing it left and even mentioned the special democratic committee to kill pro gun legislation...

EDIT: some of the comments are, as usual, downright ignorant and moronic. Even one guy who says he owns guns and carrys says he cannot go into establishments right now that serve alcohol. I dont have an account (and dont care to have one). Someone who does should invite that guy over here so he can learn what the VA laws regarding firearms are today...

[Unkn0wN]

A couple of cops had some good comments:

I didn't read all the comments, just those on the first page..

I am a cop and have been one for thirty years. I have been in dozens of armed confrontations and have been shot before. I have been up close and personal with guns, drunks, felons and the Second Amendment which is STILL part of the Bill of Rights that I swore to defend.I have no problem whatsoever with the new law. Folks with CCW permits are not going to be a problem. It is the folks that are currently packing concealed guns in bars without permits and often carrying while they are convicted felons or carrying guns with drugs that are the problem. Why deny the right of a citizen to protect themselves? Currently anyone can openly carry a firearm in a bar without a permit as long as they aren't a felon or been convicted of domestic violence.

Guns and alcohol do not mix and that is why the bill does not allow the permitee to drink while carrying. Quit letting emotion steer you on tryng to keep good citizens from defending themselves. Use some common sense. Remember, when seconds count, the police will be there in minutes...

But you don't stand alone. I'm also a local police officer, and although I've never been shot, I've confronted lots of armed, drunk idiots over the sights of my gun. Not one of them had a concealed weapons permit. And a few of them were in a bar, where the law of the land did not deter them from bringing their illegally concealed gun. People only want to hear half the truth. OF COURSE alcohol and guns don't mix, but only when you apply them to the same person at the same time. If there's already that combination in a bar illegally, the only immediate defense is a legally armed, sober person, which is what this new law creates an allowance for. I have never feared a law abiding citizen with a gun. And, like you, I swore to defend ALL of the Constitution and I meant it. These Police Chiefs do not speak for me.

[wylde007]

Just when I think people can't possibly get any stupider, I have to read another slew of inane mouth diarrhea from transplant yankee liberals infesting my state.

But, Hamptonroads.com (where I do have an account, posting under "vblivesound") is very much like Roanoke and Northern Virginia where a small but VERY VOCAL minority make the rest of us work that much harder to keep our rights safe from their abrogation.

They make me cringe.

[zephyp]

@Travis, take heart and be of good cheer. God has a plan for you and its much bigger than you think. You know that He will lead us to victory.

[wylde007]

You know that He will lead us to victory.

I just wish he'd give me some sort of time table.

Not trying to tell our Lord how to do his job, I just wish I knew if I had time to finish a couple of projects around the house or else I'll be getting it from both ends!

[JC420IN]

I believe you should have the right to carry just about anywhere if you have your CHP, as one of the police officers said it's usually the guy carrying illegally that's the problem. But here's something to think about, if you get caught carrying while you are drunk they can take your away your gun and your right to carry. I was in my safety class with a guy who had gotten caught drunk and C/C and he wasn't allowed to carry for 5 years. So even if they do pass the law once you take a drink you could still end up in some trouble.

[VBshooter]

Hopefully I am wrong but I bet we go the same way as TN did over this restaurant bill, Police cheifs today,restaurant owners tommorow,then the rest of the magpies join in......

[BluemontGlock]

as open carry is legal in bar and restaurants, we already have the situation that he finds "possible fatal" making his input relegated to the monotone innane...

Perhaps the Chief of police should become a forum member to get brushed up on the Va laws....

[zephyp]

You know that He will lead us to victory.

I just wish he'd give me some sort of time table.

Not trying to tell our Lord how to do his job, I just wish I knew if I had time to finish a couple of projects around the house or else I'll be getting it from both ends!

Soon...

[DWinter]

Im watching this exact story and am glad to see News 13 say "while the Governer states has received the VB chief"s letter and recognizes his concern, He still plans on signing the bill". Finally someone in the govt with some sense.

[fireman836]

The only people that the bill allows to mix guns and alcohol
are police officers (on duty, off duty, and retired) and Commonwealth
Attorneys and their deputies.

Nov 25, 2009 ... Virginia Beach Police officer to serve jail time after DUI conviction.

December 2009 - A Virginia Beach police officer – the second this year – was charged with driving under the influence and hit-and-run Saturday morning.

Feb 10, 2010 - A Virginia Beach police sergeant is facing jail time after a drunken driving arrest.

As a citizen of Virginia I can carry my handgun into a restaurant that serves alcohol and have a drink now, as long as it is not concealed, and I don't get drunk. Under the new law I would be able to conceal it as long as I don't drink. Anyone except police officers and states attorneys that drinks alcohol while carrying a concealed handgun is guilty of violating the law.

[DWinter]

Maybe chief Jacocks should worry more about the (armed) off duty drinking behavior of members of his department rather than worrying about whether or not I'm armed when we head out for dinner.

[zephyp]

The only people that the bill allows to mix guns and alcohol
are police officers (on duty, off duty, and retired) and Commonwealth
Attorneys and their deputies.

I think they removed the part that LEO could drink while CCing. Makes us all equal-er...

[Lexington]

I moved here from CO, where CCW in bars is legal as long as the carrier does not drink. It works just fine. If the VA state police want counter-evidence to their assertion that CCW in bars is a recipe for disaster, all they have to do is look at states where it is already legal to find out that there are no shoot-outs. What would be any different here?

[fireman836]

The only people that the bill allows to mix guns and alcohol
are police officers (on duty, off duty, and retired) and Commonwealth
Attorneys and their deputies.

I think they removed the part that LEO could drink while CCing. Makes us all equal-er...

To my knowledge it is still in and I was quoting a VCDL Alert from VCDL Pres.

[wylde007]

What would be any different here?

Absolutely nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

[vbrtrmn]

Has anyone here ever been to a bar in Virginia? I've been to plenty of restaurants which serve liquor, but I've never actually seen an establishment which only serves liquor. That may be because there are no bars in Virginia, so someone saying they are against conceal carry in bars is like someone saying that they are against stabling unicorns with regular horses

[allingeneral]

Has anyone here ever been to a bar in Virginia? I've been to plenty of restaurants which serve liquor, but I've never actually seen an establishment which only serves liquor. That may be because there are no bars in Virginia, so someone saying they are against conceal carry in bars is like someone saying that they are against stabling unicorns with regular horses

Precisely. And everyone knows that we shouldn't allow unicorns in bars - there will be bloodshed in the streets! A recipe for disaster!

[OakRidgeStars]

And as PVC pointed out in his last VCDL update, the same restaurant owners that are opposed to CHP holders carrying in their establishment have no problem serving alcohol to customers with car keys in their pocket.