store " no handguns allowed" signs

[GS78]

I had to stop before reading the whole last post. As far as who would know, I would know if I was doing something knowingly against a company policy. If the issue is that bad, why would you want to give them your money in the first place? Two wrongs don't make a right, I feel them keeping up a policy that is anti self defence. Just because you may feel their policy is wrong dos not make it right for you to ignore. We talk much about how criminols do not obey laws, but yet you are not above breaking them your self and willing to publicly say so. What is wrong with that picture?

Would you break a law to save a life?

[KennyS]

Whats so funny about this thread is I bet most would agree; If you were to put up a no trasspass sign on your private property, that is what you would expect. If law did nothing to inforce your own rules or people refused to carry out your wishes on your own property you would not be happy. Owners of private buisness feel the same way. Just as someone may not agree with my own set of rules, that is where it stops because it is my choice, my property. If you don't like something voice it, try to get them to see your side. Going against their wishes and rules does no more than show a lack of respect for individual choice reguardless of you feeling they are right or wrong.

[KennyS]

I had to stop before reading the whole last post. As far as who would know, I would know if I was doing something knowingly against a company policy. If the issue is that bad, why would you want to give them your money in the first place? Two wrongs don't make a right, I feel them keeping up a policy that is anti self defence. Just because you may feel their policy is wrong dos not make it right for you to ignore. We talk much about how criminols do not obey laws, but yet you are not above breaking them your self and willing to publicly say so. What is wrong with that picture?

Would you break a law to save a life?

That goes without saying. But I would not break a law to save a dollar, or save a dollar to go to a store that I know I would not be breaking the law.

[scampbell3]

I had to stop before reading the whole last post. As far as who would know, I would know if I was doing something knowingly against a company policy. If the issue is that bad, why would you want to give them your money in the first place? Two wrongs don't make a right, I feel them keeping up a policy that is anti self defence. Just because you may feel their policy is wrong dos not make it right for you to ignore. We talk much about how criminols do not obey laws, but yet you are not above breaking them your self and willing to publicly say so. What is wrong with that picture?

One thing that you need to realize is the difference between a law and a policy. A policy is not law, and too often people get these confused. In Va, one of the many restrictions that you have on your CHP is in regards to GFZ postings. For that, I am sorry you in Va have to deal with that. Since we are a 'may issue' state, we do not have the numerous restrictions on our CCDW permits as those who are in shall issue states.

If you completed the reading of my post, you would have noted, that a person needs to be aware of the laws and statutes concerning the use of GFZ postings. Some states, they are enforced by law or statues, in other state, they carry NO LEGAL authority, and thus no punishable offense is committed. Where as, carrying concealed in that location is NOT BREAKING any law.

The choice to patronize, leave, carry or anything else is up to the individual to determine. That is the beauty in freedom and liberty, personal choice. I happen to live where if I choose to carry concealed (with my CCDW) and enter a location that is posted, I am NOT VIOLATING any LAW. I don't think I can make it any clearer.

Since the GFZ signs have no legal backing were I live, they are extremely rare to find. As a matter of fact, I have only seen two in the last 5 years.

I generally do not patronize locations that have these postings, I only encounter them when I am traveling out of state, but I also have educated myself on the laws and statues of the states I visit and carry in. I also know where they carry legal authority and where they are personal policies.

In Va, the GFZ is a condition of your CHP, and thus carrying a firearm in such a location would be a violation of the conditions of your CHP, thus unlawful. But, that is not the case in all states, and that needs to be clarified.

But to continue to play the devil's advocate on this....where do the majority of shootings and violence occur?????

[KennyS]

I had to stop before reading the whole last post. As far as who would know, I would know if I was doing something knowingly against a company policy. If the issue is that bad, why would you want to give them your money in the first place? Two wrongs don't make a right, I feel them keeping up a policy that is anti self defence. Just because you may feel their policy is wrong dos not make it right for you to ignore. We talk much about how criminols do not obey laws, but yet you are not above breaking them your self and willing to publicly say so. What is wrong with that picture?

One thing that you need to realize is the difference between a law and a policy. A policy is not law, and too often people get these confused. In Va, one of the many restrictions that you have on your CHP is in regards to GFZ postings. For that, I am sorry you in Va have to deal with that. Since we are a 'may issue' state, we do not have the numerous restrictions on our CCDW permits as those who are in shall issue states.

If you completed the reading of my post, you would have noted, that a person needs to be aware of the laws and statutes concerning the use of GFZ postings. Some states, they are enforced by law or statues, in other state, they carry NO LEGAL authority, and thus no punishable offense is committed. Where as, carrying concealed in that location is NOT BREAKING any law.

The choice to patronize, leave, carry or anything else is up to the individual to determine. That is the beauty in freedom and liberty, personal choice. I happen to live where if I choose to carry concealed (with my CCDW) and enter a location that is posted, I am NOT VIOLATING any LAW. I don't think I can make it any clearer.

Since the GFZ signs have no legal backing were I live, they are extremely rare to find. As a matter of fact, I have only seen two in the last 5 years.

I generally do not patronize locations that have these postings, I only encounter them when I am traveling out of state, but I also have educated myself on the laws and statues of the states I visit and carry in. I also know where they carry legal authority and where they are personal policies.

In Va, the GFZ is a condition of your CHP, and thus carrying a firearm in such a location would be a violation of the conditions of your CHP, thus unlawful. But, that is not the case in all states, and that needs to be clarified.

But to continue to play the devil's advocate on this....where do the majority of shootings and violence occur?????

I apologize for not recognizing that fact as of your state as well for reading as quickly as I am at work. While Va permits grant us permission for concealed carry as well as other privileges. Yes I said privilege, as open carry as I see it is a right as you don’t need permission to do so. I do have a permit however; I use it for my own convenience. In general I don’t carry concealed in places that I would have an issue OC. either they allow carry or they don’t. Thinking you were from Va, I was assuming that you were one that thought because you had your permit, you were above the law. So much time was put in to having extra perks for the permits, with the selling point, probably not intentional, but in a generalization that permit holder were so much better than gun owners with out permits. Having said that, someone intentionally posting about ignoring signs only adds fuel to the fire in a public view with the antis only to show a lack of regard by some permit holders.

[GS78]

I apologize for not recognizing that fact as of your state as well for reading as quickly as I am at work. While Va permits grant us permission for concealed carry as well as other privileges. Yes I said privilege, as open carry as I see it is a right as you don’t need permission to do so. I do have a permit however; I use it for my own convenience. In general I don’t carry concealed in places that I would have an issue OC. either they allow carry or they don’t. Thinking you were from Va, I was assuming that you were one that thought because you had your permit, you were above the law. So much time was put in to having extra perks for the permits, with the selling point, probably not intentional, but in a generalization that permit holder were so much better than gun owners with out permits. Having said that, someone intentionally posting about ignoring signs only adds fuel to the fire in a public view with the antis only to show a lack of regard by some permit holders.

Kenny?... don't hold back son, if you want to ask me a question or debate a statement I have made, address it directly to me. First let me inform you of something, I don't give a damn what the "anti's" think about anyones guns, not mine, not yours. Truth is they don't like either of our guns, they only like their own guns. Fact two. I understand the second ammendment to be MY RIGHT. No exceptions, no pre-conditions, no retreat. I don't follow what you are trying to imply with the following ;"fire in a public view "....so I'll let that go....

[GS78]

Whats so funny about this thread is I bet most would agree; If you were to put up a no trasspass sign on your private property, that is what you would expect. If law did nothing to inforce your own rules or people refused to carry out your wishes on your own property you would not be happy. Owners of private buisness feel the same way. Just as someone may not agree with my own set of rules, that is where it stops because it is my choice, my property. If you don't like something voice it, try to get them to see your side. Going against their wishes and rules does no more than show a lack of respect for individual choice reguardless of you feeling they are right or wrong.

It must be nice to see things in such rosey ambience kenny. We were not talking about no tresspassing were we kenny? If we were, I stand corrected. I would not enter a business open to the public that had a no tresspassing sign on the fron door. The trouble is that a criminal with the intent to rob, or kill the patrons inside would. So kenny, I'll ask again. If you are in a Gun Free establishment, and it is robbed and all the people inside are shot including you, and your gun and maybe many more are out in the parking lot,locked in cars.......what would the public view of that be? would that make the antis more proud of how you showed restraint and took the bullets instead of breaking the policy of the owner? are you kidding me?

[GS78]

I had to stop before reading the whole last post. As far as who would know, I would know if I was doing something knowingly against a company policy. If the issue is that bad, why would you want to give them your money in the first place? Two wrongs don't make a right, I feel them keeping up a policy that is anti self defence. Just because you may feel their policy is wrong dos not make it right for you to ignore. We talk much about how criminols do not obey laws, but yet you are not above breaking them your self and willing to publicly say so. What is wrong with that picture?

Would you break a law to save a life?

That goes without saying. But I would not break a law to save a dollar, or save a dollar to go to a store that I know I would not be breaking the law.

Good for you. If you and I are ever in that establishment at the time of a deadly crime in progress, I will be the one NOT RUNNING and pushing people out of my way, or hiding under something, say hello.

[KennyS]

Whats so funny about this thread is I bet most would agree; If you were to put up a no trasspass sign on your private property, that is what you would expect. If law did nothing to inforce your own rules or people refused to carry out your wishes on your own property you would not be happy. Owners of private buisness feel the same way. Just as someone may not agree with my own set of rules, that is where it stops because it is my choice, my property. If you don't like something voice it, try to get them to see your side. Going against their wishes and rules does no more than show a lack of respect for individual choice reguardless of you feeling they are right or wrong.

It must be nice to see things in such rosey ambience kenny. We were not talking about no tresspassing were we kenny? If we were, I stand corrected. I would not enter a business open to the public that had a no tresspassing sign on the fron door. The trouble is that a criminal with the intent to rob, or kill the patrons inside would. So kenny, I'll ask again. If you are in a Gun Free establishment, and it is robbed and all the people inside are shot including you, and your gun and maybe many more are out in the parking lot,locked in cars.......what would the public view of that be? would that make the antis more proud of how you showed restraint and took the bullets instead of breaking the policy of the owner? are you kidding me?

I am using similarities, and in Va they can prosecute on a charge of trespass for not obeying. Other than being summoned to court, or school and maybe a couple other places beyond control, you have a choice to put yourself into a defenseless situation. Simply said why would you feel you have to go to a place that does not allow lawful carry? The way you explain it, it seam’s to suggest that if you had two same businesses side by side, you would be more apt to going into the posted one. On the same note it seems that you site justification for the prevalence of being a hero because of ignoring a business owner’s policy. The intent that it is concealed and isn’t noticed is one thing, out of site out of mind, this may be your choice, as I have mine, but I certainly wouldn’t get on a public site and announce to the world, that I am a law abiding gun owner with the exception that laws and policies mean nothing.

[GS78]

Whats so funny about this thread is I bet most would agree; If you were to put up a no trasspass sign on your private property, that is what you would expect. If law did nothing to inforce your own rules or people refused to carry out your wishes on your own property you would not be happy. Owners of private buisness feel the same way. Just as someone may not agree with my own set of rules, that is where it stops because it is my choice, my property. If you don't like something voice it, try to get them to see your side. Going against their wishes and rules does no more than show a lack of respect for individual choice reguardless of you feeling they are right or wrong.

It must be nice to see things in such rosey ambience kenny. We were not talking about no tresspassing were we kenny? If we were, I stand corrected. I would not enter a business open to the public that had a no tresspassing sign on the fron door. The trouble is that a criminal with the intent to rob, or kill the patrons inside would. So kenny, I'll ask again. If you are in a Gun Free establishment, and it is robbed and all the people inside are shot including you, and your gun and maybe many more are out in the parking lot,locked in cars.......what would the public view of that be? would that make the antis more proud of how you showed restraint and took the bullets instead of breaking the policy of the owner? are you kidding me?

I am using similarities, and in Va they can prosecute on a charge of trespass for not obeying. Other than being summoned to court, or school and maybe a couple other places beyond control, you have a choice to put yourself into a defenseless situation. Simply said why would you feel you have to go to a place that does not allow lawful carry? The way you explain it, it seam’s to suggest that if you had two same businesses side by side, you would be more apt to going into the posted one. On the same note it seems that you site justification for the prevalence of being a hero because of ignoring a business owner’s policy. The intent that it is concealed and isn’t noticed is one thing, out of site out of mind, this may be your choice, as I have mine, but I certainly wouldn’t get on a public site and announce to the world, that I am a law abiding gun owner with the exception that laws and policies mean nothing.

You need to read more carefully kenny, I never said anything like what you have insinuated here. In fact the opposite is true , if you look back I said I don't go out of my way to ever go into a Gun Free Zone, its stupid. You are asking to be a victim. I will let your juvenile comment about wanting to be a hero slide, but only this once...

[GS78]

[ , but I certainly wouldn’t get on a public site and announce to the world, that I am a law abiding gun owner with the exception that laws and policies mean nothing.

Tell me what my name is kenny.

[KennyS]

[ , but I certainly wouldn’t get on a public site and announce to the world, that I am a law abiding gun owner with the exception that laws and policies mean nothing.

Tell me what my name is kenny.

Oh that’s right; you could be one of the anti's just trying to add to a false sense on how gun owners don't obey rules, even with permits. Your right I don't know you from Adam neither does any one else that may just come across this board. If I could take you out of context being pro 2a, imagine what a dumb a** liberal could do.

[GS78]

[ , but I certainly wouldn’t get on a public site and announce to the world, that I am a law abiding gun owner with the exception that laws and policies mean nothing.

Tell me what my name is kenny.

Oh that’s right; you could be one of the anti's just trying to add to a false sense on how gun owners don't obey rules, even with permits. Your right I don't know you from Adam neither does any one else that may just come across this board. If I could take you out of context being pro 2a, imagine what a dumb a** liberal could do.

Now you're catching on ...

[zephyp]

The problem with carrying concealed in a business with a sign clearly posted is you are indeed breaking the law. You have been informed tacitly that no guns are allowed. The law doesnt say how you have to be informed. Anything can happen while you are in the store. So what if you are forced to defend yourself - you're going to be charged. What happens if you have a health incident...what if what if...then you become the criminal.

[ProShooter]

The problem with carrying concealed in a business with a sign clearly posted is you are indeed breaking the law. You have been informed tacitly that no guns are allowed. .

+1

[GS78]

The problem with carrying concealed in a business with a sign clearly posted is you are indeed breaking the law. You have been informed tacitly that no guns are allowed. The law doesnt say how you have to be informed. Anything can happen while you are in the store. So what if you are forced to defend yourself - you're going to be charged. What happens if you have a health incident...what if what if...then you become the criminal.

.... ok this is out of hand, thats what happens, things morph into what if's. I am not going to say anything else on this subject, my response to you about this "what if"?

What if you didn't notice the sign coming in? what if you didn't because you came in the back entrance with no sign? what if a fat bellied greeter was covering the sign with his/her fat ass?

...... what if you had to defend yourself or someone else, you would be charged? yeah, perhaps you would, but you wouldn't be DEAD. Go back and read what I said, I avoid the GFZ's like a plague. It was some illiterate that said I would CHOOSE to go into a GFZ because I (being a permit holder) given the coice between two stores , side by side, would choose to go into the marked store.....maybe you need to "explain" things to that person.

[zephyp]

@GS78 - I hear you but when I enter any establishment I make it my business to look for a sign on the door. Ignorance of the law is no excuse and I'm sure most of the LE around here wont listen to an argument that some bubble butt covered up the sign. They may down in your neck of the woods. And I saw your point about avoiding GFZ...I try to do the same.

[GS78]

@GS78 - I hear you but when I enter any establishment I make it my business to look for a sign on the door. Ignorance of the law is no excuse and I'm sure most of the LE around here wont listen to an argument that some bubble butt covered up the sign. They may down in your neck of the woods. And I saw your point about avoiding GFZ...I try to do the same.

Thats why I stay in "this neck of the woods"

[Afrikaner82]

I personally believe that if I am in a GFZ whether carrying or not if someone starts shooting I would be within my legal right to sue them for every penny because the infringed upon my 2A right and did not protect me by posting a sign. I believe if you post a GFZ sign then you are responsible for everyone's protection.

I know someone is going to say that is what the police is for but it is private property so the owner or businesses is responsible for what happens on the property.

Now all what I said is my 2 cents.

[zephyp]

@GS78 - I hear you but when I enter any establishment I make it my business to look for a sign on the door. Ignorance of the law is no excuse and I'm sure most of the LE around here wont listen to an argument that some bubble butt covered up the sign. They may down in your neck of the woods. And I saw your point about avoiding GFZ...I try to do the same.

Thats why I stay in "this neck of the woods"

If I could convince a pretty young gal (also named Young) to do so I'd be leaving this neck of the woods in one big hurry...you can buy shoes and purses on the internet.