Question about gun shows

[wrt81]

I know there is a one gun per month law if you don't have a concealed carry permit, but does that law also apply to guns sold at gun shows as well?

I've never purchased a gun at a show, but I always thought that no background check was required so I was wondering if that also meant the one gun per month law didn't apply.

[grumpyMSG]

Actually it is "one Handgun a month", you can buy all the Shotguns and Rifles you want, provided you pass the background checks.

[wrt81]

Ah yea I forgot that it only applied to handguns. But does that part apply at the gun shows as well?

[allingeneral]

It applies anywhere you buy a handgun where a background check is performed. Private purchases do not count. You can request a waiver through the State Police if you want to purchase more than one handgun in a month through an FFL. CHP holders are exempt from the one handgun per month rule. Here is the relevant Virginia Code. Important points outlined i red bold text.

IANAL, but that is how I understand the code cited below.

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http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... .2-308.2C2

P. Except as provided in subdivisions 1, 2, and 3 of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person who is not a licensed firearms dealer to purchase more than one handgun within any 30-day period. A violation of this subsection shall be punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.

1. Purchases in excess of one handgun within a 30-day period may be made upon completion of an enhanced background check, as described herein, by special application to the Department of State Police listing the number and type of handguns to be purchased and transferred for lawful business or personal use, in a collector series, for collections, as a bulk purchase from estate sales and for similar purposes. Such applications shall be signed under oath by the applicant on forms provided by the Department of State Police, shall state the purpose for the purchase above the limit, and shall require satisfactory proof of residency and identity. Such application shall be in addition to the firearms sales report required by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF). The Superintendent of State Police shall promulgate regulations, pursuant to the Administrative Process Act (� 2.2-4000 et seq.), for the implementation of an application process for purchases of handguns above the limit.

Upon being satisfied that these requirements have been met, the Department of State Police shall forthwith issue to the applicant a nontransferable certificate, which shall be valid for seven days from the date of issue. The certificate shall be surrendered to the dealer by the prospective purchaser prior to the consummation of such sale and shall be kept on file at the dealer's place of business for inspection as provided in � 54.1-4201 for a period of not less than two years. Upon request of any local law-enforcement agency, and pursuant to its regulations, the Department of State Police may certify such local law-enforcement agency to serve as its agent to receive applications and, upon authorization by the Department of State Police, issue certificates forthwith pursuant to this subsection. Applications and certificates issued under this subsection shall be maintained as records as provided in subdivision B 3. The Department of State Police shall make available to local law-enforcement agencies all records concerning certificates issued pursuant to this subsection and all records provided for in subdivision B 3.

2. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to:

a. A law-enforcement agency;

b. An agency duly authorized to perform law-enforcement duties;

c. State and local correctional facilities;

d. A private security company licensed to do business within the Commonwealth;

e. The purchase of antique firearms as herein defined;

f. A person whose handgun is stolen or irretrievably lost who deems it essential that such handgun be replaced immediately. Such person may purchase another handgun, even if the person has previously purchased a handgun within a 30-day period, provided (i) the person provides the firearms dealer with a copy of the official police report or a summary thereof, on forms provided by the Department of State Police, from the law-enforcement agency that took the report of the lost or stolen handgun; (ii) the official police report or summary thereof contains the name and address of the handgun owner, the description of the handgun, the location of the loss or theft, the date of the loss or theft, and the date the loss or theft was reported to the law-enforcement agency; and (iii) the date of the loss or theft as reflected on the official police report or summary thereof occurred within 30 days of the person's attempt to replace the handgun. The firearms dealer shall attach a copy of the official police report or summary thereof to the original copy of the Virginia firearms transaction report completed for the transaction and retain it for the period prescribed by the Department of State Police;

g. A person who trades in a handgun at the same time he makes a handgun purchase and as a part of the same transaction, provided that no more than one transaction of this nature is completed per day;

h. A person who holds a valid Virginia permit to carry a concealed handgun;

i. A person who purchases a handgun in a private sale. For purposes of this subdivision, a private sale means purchase from a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection of curios or relics as herein defined, or who sells all or part of such collection of curios and relics; or

j. A law-enforcement officer. For purposes of this subdivision, a law-enforcement officer means any employee of a police department or sheriff's office that is part of or administered by the Commonwealth or any political subdivision thereof, and who is responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the enforcement of the penal, traffic or highway laws of the Commonwealth.

3. For the purposes of this subsection, "purchase" shall not include the exchange or replacement of a handgun by a seller for a handgun purchased from such seller by the same person seeking the exchange or replacement within the 30-day period immediately preceding the date of exchange or replacement.

[wrt81]

Thanks for the info

[zephyp]

Glad this question was asked. I wondered about private sales the other day regarding the 30 day rule. Doesnt matter to me anyway as a CHP holder. Just something I wondered about. Now we know the...rest of the story.

[gfost1]

Howdy, Y'all,

Hate to stir the pot, here, but the C&R references in the cited code section are giving me some heartburn:

It applies anywhere you buy a handgun where a background check is performed. Private purchases do not count.


2. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to:

e. The purchase of antique firearms as herein defined;

h. A person who holds a valid Virginia permit to carry a concealed handgun;

i. A person who purchases a handgun in a private sale. For purposes of this subdivision, a private sale means purchase from a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection of curios or relics as herein defined, or who sells all or part of such collection of curios and relics; or

Is there more to this, Rick? IANAL, either, but my recollection from back in the day when the law was originally passed was that it DID apply to private sales, too. Obviously the wording has changed over the years, but it looks to me like we may be hanging our current interpretation on a vaguely worded C&R exception that was added later.

Regards,

George

[zephyp]

Hey it does like C&R is the qualifier there. Wheres proshooter?

[allingeneral]

I thought long and hard about the wording before I posted my initial response. The way I see it is this:

i. A person who purchases a handgun in a private sale. (this is a sentence, ended by a period and is pretty straightforward)

For purposes of this subdivision, a private sale means:
- purchase from a person who makes occasional sales, (this comma means "or" in my interpretation)
or
- exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection of curios or relics as herein defined,
or
- who sells all or part of such collection of curios and relics;

I have been wrong before and IANAL.

[ProShooter]

Hey it does like C&R is the qualifier there. Wheres proshooter?

You rang?

AFAIK/IANAL, private sales are not included.

[zephyp]

Hey it does like C&R is the qualifier there. Wheres proshooter?

You rang?

AFAIK/IANAL, private sales are not included.

Thanks. Can you clarify the C&R portion of the code cited above?

[ProShooter]

Hey it does like C&R is the qualifier there. Wheres proshooter?

You rang?

AFAIK/IANAL, private sales are not included.

Thanks. Can you clarify the C&R portion of the code cited above?

Based on the below definition, I'm not sure that I can answer it with any certainty. It is opposite what I originally understood to be true. It would seem that most guns are not included.

. Any curio or relic as defined in this subsection.

"Curios or relics" means firearms that are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1. Firearms that were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, which use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade, but not including replicas thereof;

2. Firearms that are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

3. Any other firearms that derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collectors' items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

[allingeneral]

So, the simplest answer is "Go get your CHP if you don't already have one"

As I re-read this, the comma looks less and less like an "or"

i. A person who purchases a handgun in a private sale. For purposes of this subdivision, a private sale means purchase from a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection of curios or relics as herein defined, or who sells all or part of such collection of curios and relics;

i.e. A person who:
a) makes occasional sales, exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection of curios or relics as herein defined
b) sells all or part of such collection of curios and relic

[ProShooter]

So, the simplest answer is "Go get your CHP if you don't already have one"

Yes, I like that answer!

[zephyp]

Thanks Jim.

Rick IMHO that clause means you can buy and trade C&R without worry but other handguns are limited to the 30 day rule in private sales.

Jay - another for VCDL maybe?

[allingeneral]

Well, when you get right down to it - since private sales don't have to go through an FFL and a background check - who's to say when you bought those three pistols privately? You could have purchased all of them on the same day, but Big Brother doesn't know about it, so no harm no foul, right?

I'm not advocating skirting the law in any way here, just pointing out that a private sale is exactly that - private.

I would definitely like to hear VCDL's stance on this one, but have been in contact with them a lot lately and don't want to wear out my welcome. lol

[OakRidgeStars]

I agree that private sales are not subject to the one-handgun-a-month law. The GA would have to determine which party in the private transaction would ultimately bear the burden of ensuring that no laws have been broken. And since neither party has access to NICS, no determination can be made.

Now to really muddy up the waters, what if one party in the private transaction has a C&R license?. Does the license holder have any additional requirements as defined by the ATF?. Is it still a "private" sale at that point?.

[zephyp]

Well, I'm already making it a standard practice to ask "can you legally own a handgun in VA" in private transactions. Mainly due to bloomberg (the twit) sting operations. I'm gonna start asking this one too just to be on the safe side. I can always walk if I feel uncomfortable.