Don't be a gun dork in traffic stops

[OakRidgeStars]

http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-R ... ffic-stops

http://tinyurl.com/ydb8jdp

Don’t be a gun dork in traffic stops
December 31, 6:42 PM
DC Gun Rights Examiner
Mike Stollenwerk

On numerous Internet forums, and some email lists, gun owners periodically report being hassled by police when pulled over for routine traffic infractions. These gun owners often complain of being detained for longer than necessary to issue a traffic summons, being temporarily disarmed, and having the serial numbers of the guns recorded.

But often there is a common thread to these stories – the dorky gun owner brought up the gun thing all on her own!

Traffic stop gun dork behavior comes in a variety of flavors, but here are the major ones:

The I gotta show my carry permit gun dork: This gun owner, for whatever reason, insists on notifying the officer she holds a gun carry permit. Maybe thinking the officer will give her “professional courtesy” and not issue a summons if the officer sees the permit, the gun dork slyly exposes her permit while finding her driver’s license, or maybe asks, batting her eyes, “officer, do you want to see my concealed handgun permit?”

The I gotta notify the officer I have a gun gun dork: This gun owner, even when in many or most states like Virginia and Pennsylvania which do not require gun owners to notify officers that they have a gun, always starts the conversation with police officers with “I have a gun!,” or words to that effect. And regardless of how toastmaster smooth this gun dork thinks he can speaks, the officer likely perceives the relevant communication simply as “I have a gun!” when his brain processes this spontaneous statement by the unknown subject he has just seized.

The I gotta act like the police might shoot me gun dork: This gun owner, after turning on his dome light even in day time as if his balding head needs illumination, grips his steering wheel in white knuckled determination to refuses any temptation to move or open his wallet and glove box to get his driver’s license, registration, and proof of insurance. Nosirreeee, this gun dork is gonna to wait 'till the officer gets to the window and tells him how to chew soup today.

And sometimes these gun dorks execute more than one of these behaviors, or one of several others oddities – like my favorite: getting out of their car “to meet the officer on equal ground.”

Just compare these gun dorky behaviors to what most motorists do in a traffic stop: First they say “oh [insert favorite explicative]!” Second, they pull over in a spot that gives the officer a place to park too. Third, they take a deep breath and then get out their driver’s license, registration, and proof of insurance – about that time the officer is walking up and observing this normal behavior and saying something like “good morning sir, I need see your license and registration.”

At this point the normal motorist tries to seem relaxed as possible, slightly apologetic too, and does a little Colombo routine, something like: “Oh, ahh, sure officer, I think these are up to date, ahh, do you want that insurance thingy too?” Over the next few minutes the officer runs checks on your docs, gives you a short lecture, and then issues you a warning or summons and everybody is on their way.

Incredibly, gun dorks seem surprised or infuriated when things go differently for them. Gun dorks should think for a minute and realize that what they are saying or doing is frankly very strange and unnerving and creates a problem for the police officer that he must deal with – and deal with in only a few seconds based upon what his training, instincts, recollection of possible department policies, and personal biases tell him to do at that instant.

And let’s not forget the relevant social and economic incentives for police officer behavior – if the officer treats the gun dork like any other ordinary motorist after the gun dork communicates “gun!” in one way or another, and something bad happens during that traffic stop, do you think that officer is goin’ to get selected for Detective anytime soon?

So here’s a great New Year’s resolution for 2010: Don’t be a gun dork in traffic stops!

Happy New Year!

--
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[MountainCat]

There's a time and place to not give information to police:



However before a traffic stop, the officer will already know if the owner of the vehicle has a CHP and possibly a weapon. (In Virginia at least)

Why not ease the tension and hand him a license, registration, and CHP with both hands on the wheel/visible and the interior lights on.

I guess I'm a Dork but I think that's a lot of bad advice for Virginians.

[allingeneral]

I think I have to lean toward "Give the police no more information than they require". The more information you provide, the more questions they will ask. I'll keep my traffic stops as brief as possible - the less questions that are asked, the less possibility of Mr. Policeman to get the wrong idea about *anything*.

The fact that my CHP comes up when he runs my driver's license is all the information that he needs. I'm not volunteering *any* information.

Call me paranoid, but it's the job of the police to be "out to get you".

[USMCGunner]

Although I always have my stuff ready with window down and light on, I remain pretty comfortable. I think part of normal people's anxiety (not the true dorks) is that "what if/suprise" factor. "What if this cop finds out I'm carrying? What will he/she do?" Thus the paranoid behavior begins.

Maybe this will help. As I understand it, when your application for CCL is accepted, your information get's flagged within the VCIN system. As long as the jurisdiction pulling you over subscribes to the system, your name starts flahing and beeping and jumping out of the screen as a law biding citizen who may be armed.

Chances are they already know before they walk up. And in my experience, they don't care. If anything, they're more comfortable knowing there is most likely something there with a "registered" citizen rather than the unknown.

Any LEOs on here to confirm?

[USMCGunner]

we were all typing at the same time and you two beat me to it.

Rick, I agree. Obviously if the cop asks, reply honestly. As far as I'm concerned, keeping your hands in plain view is good advice whether you carry or not. White knuckling the steering wheel excluded of course.

[ProShooter]

Call me paranoid, but it's the job of the police to be "out to get you".

I've got to strongly disagree here. I've never worked with anyone who sat in roll call and felt that before the start of a shift. As a supervisor, I would have hammered any of my people who ever hinted at that goal.

[ProShooter]

Chances are they already know before they walk up. And in my experience, they don't care. If anything, they're more comfortable knowing there is most likely something there with a "registered" citizen rather than the unknown.

Any LEOs on here to confirm?

I agree, but I would use the term "law abiding" rather than " registered".

[MountainCat]

Call me paranoid, but it's the job of the police to be "out to get you".

I've got to strongly disagree here. I've never worked with anyone who sat in roll call and felt that before the start of a shift. As a supervisor, I would have hammered any of my people who ever hinted at that goal.

Rather than saying they are 'out to get you'; I would personally restate it as 'out for themselves'.

Next time you have an hour to kill, take a look at the video that I linked to above. I'm curious if you agree with it.

[GS78]

It really comes down to this, be respectful. Chances are you got stopped for doing 'something', unless you rolled up on a conga line. The officer will know if you have a permit if you're driving your own vehicle. I have been asked "if I am armed?" always follwed with "Mr...." so I have to say I haven't found any deputies, officers or Troopers "out to get me". I think I can say that probably 99% of concealed weapon permit holders are not going to spring on a Cop and open fire over a speeding ticket, I think most cops are aware of that too.....

[GS78]

Let me also add that I don't give the impression that I am doing anything questionable by carrying, its my right. I think some people don't really believe that so they give off vibes that something's wrong, thus making the LEO nervous.

[USMCGunner]

Chances are they already know before they walk up. And in my experience, they don't care. If anything, they're more comfortable knowing there is most likely something there with a "registered" citizen rather than the unknown.

Any LEOs on here to confirm?

I agree, but I would use the term "law abiding" rather than " registered".

That's why I put it quotes. The point being 1) The whole point of being in fact registered despite being law abiding. 2) Simply to mean that the LEO is approaching someone who has gone through a process to allow themselves to be list within a system.

[herohog]

I have to slightly disagree with some of that Mike. When I get stopped, I do all the good things you like but, if it is dark, I do flip on the dome light. I then get my wallet out and put it on the dash along with the my papers which I keep in a pouch in the driver's door pouch. Now I have everything they might need and I don't have to reach for anything in any way that would possibly bother even the jitteriest of newbie cops. Then usually put my left arm on the door's window opening and leave my right hand relaxed and in view wherever is natural yet visible. I ask my passengers to keep their hands in their laps and not to make any sudden moves or to say ANYTHING unless directly asked by either the officer or myself. This has served me very well and I HAVE been stopped a few times under serious and stressful circumstances for which I was both in the right and innocent (and when one went to court, I was found innocent).

In my youth I did many stupid things and when caught, I was always polite and called the officer Sir or officer and I was let go even though I was most definitely guilty of a moving violation or 3 at the time. I have met ONE cop (Louisiana State Trooper) in a traffic stop that was a horses ass and gave me a ticket for 57 in a 55!

[Username]

I have yet to be pulled over with my CHP, but like Hero I got pulled a lot when I was a kid. I got off most of the time just being polite, respectful and easy going.

The only times I ever got tickets it was a result of someone riding with me causing a problem.

[SgtBill]

Call me paranoid, but it's the job of the police to be "out to get you".

I've got to strongly disagree here. I've never worked with anyone who sat in roll call and felt that before the start of a shift. As a supervisor, I would have hammered any of my people who ever hinted at that goal.

I must go along with ProShooter on this one. As a supervisor in a pretty large Dept. (450) people if I found someone with this attitude I would do my best to have them fired under Civil Service Rule's.
Bill

[allingeneral]

Alright - maybe "Out to get you" was a little harsh. How about if I rephrase it to say that "It is the job of police to find something wrong (illegal) about what you are doing and take action upon that wrongdoing.". Now, that "Mission statement" can be taken a lot of ways.

By offering more information than is required under any given circumstances, you open yourself up to a greater degree of possibility of the police finding something illegal about your actions.

[moss20]

I have friends that were taught to put hands on steering wheel and inform LEO of a gun in CHP classes.

[herohog]

I have friends that were taught to put hands on steering wheel and inform LEO of a gun in CHP classes.

And that is some good information. Along with that I would add: make no sudden moves BUT do not act/be scared and tense as that will only make the officer go on high alert. Just relax and calmly sit there and do what you ar told as long as it is a lawful request.

[OakRidgeStars]

Here's one from Roanoke that fits this discussion well. Was this guy a "gun dork" or just following the letter of the law?.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/231422

What say ye?

There is already an ongoing thread about this on OCDO

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/35921.html

[wylde007]

I was going to comment this article on OCDO and then thought against it. Seems to be split opinion on the subject.

Mine is - unless required by LAW... STFU.

[VBshooter]

I hope he wins the lawsuit!! Over reaction by the police is not a good thing either