Restoration of my rights ??

[allingeneral]

Let's please not let this discussion disintegrate into any kind of name-calling or personal bashing. The OP has a legitimate question (which I believe has been answered), whether or not you believe the motives or the methods that have been implemented up to this point.

PurpleDog - NIC is National Instant Criminal Background Check. Most of the ire that you have read in this thread is due to the fact that you responded unfaithfully to the "Felony convictions" question and made a point to let us all know that you did so. Regardless of what your attorney may have told you, I would have thought you would have known better and should have asked another attorney for a second opinion before completing any federal forms. Unfortunately, your original post has severely damaged your trustworthiness in the eyes of many here at VGOF.

I wish you luck with your restoration of rights. It sounds like a pretty minor infraction to me, but I don't know the extenuating circumstances. I can't imagine that you would have been convicted of the felony unless there was more to it than what we're hearing.

Also, if I understand correctly, you were convicted in Florida? Then that means you need to file for reinstatement of your rights to the governor of Florida, not Virginia. If Florida restores your rights, then they are automatically restored federally.

Here are a couple of pertinent links:
http://peacesecurity.suite101.com/artic ... ted_felons
Florida Application for Clemency:
https://fpc.state.fl.us/PDFs/clemency/C ... l31902.PDF

(IANAL)

[PurpleDog]

Let's please not let this discussion disintegrate into any kind of name-calling or personal bashing. The OP has a legitimate question (which I believe has been answered), whether or not you believe the motives or the methods that have been implemented up to this point.

PurpleDog - NIC is National Instant Criminal Background Check. Most of the ire that you have read in this thread is due to the fact that you responded unfaithfully to the "Felony convictions" question and made a point to let us all know that you did so. Regardless of what your attorney may have told you, I would have thought you would have known better and should have asked another attorney for a second opinion before completing any federal forms. Unfortunately, your original post has severely damaged your trustworthiness in the eyes of many here at VGOF.

I wish you luck with your restoration of rights. It sounds like a pretty minor infraction to me, but I don't know the extenuating circumstances. I can't imagine that you would have been convicted of the felony unless there was more to it than what we're hearing.

Also, if I understand correctly, you were convicted in Florida? Then that means you need to file for reinstatement of your rights to the governor of Florida, not Virginia. If Florida restores your rights, then they are automatically restored federally.

Here are a couple of pertinent links:
http://peacesecurity.suite101.com/artic ... ted_felons
Florida Application for Clemency:
https://fpc.state.fl.us/PDFs/clemency/C ... l31902.PDF

(IANAL)

Thanks for your links allingeneral. I appreciate the info. I have been told the exact opposite; that because I am a resident here in Virginia and want to vote and own a gun here, that I need to go through the restoration process in Virgina. The Florida restoration process is actually much easier than Virginia's, but there is no guarantee that Virginia would "recognize" the restoration of my rights in FL.

I consider myself a trustworthy person who made a huge mistake in filling out the VA form and saying NO to the felony question.

Let me state a few facts:

#1. I got busted in 1981 for selling what today would be considered [in either Florida or Virginian] a misdemeanor amount of weed. However, I did my probation, paid my HUGE fine and court costs, and therefore paid my debt - as prescribed by the court - to society. I screwed up, and wish that I could have that day back, and never had done what I did. I am sorry that I committed the crime !!

#2. I'm not a whiner; I pled GUILTY to my crime and accepted the punishment. I was told by my attorney that my conviction "would never come back to haunt me." My understanding is that the laws have changed since my conviction in 1982 to allow law enforcement and the military to be an exception to those sealed court records. If that is correct, and I'm 90% sure it is, then the advice I received from my Florida attorney was in fact accurate at the time.

#3. As I stated above, I wish I'd never gone into Gander Mountain and filled out the form. I was not attempting to deceive the state, or obtain a gun illegally. I could have my wife buy one - my conviction in no way, shape, or form affects my wifes right to own a gun here - and we could use it only on my wooded property - but I'm gonna wait until I can own one legally here in the state. I will be happy with my little BB pistol until my rights are restored. =)

I'm sincerely sorry, and offer an apology if I've pissed any members of the board off, or appear to be a whiner, or come off like someone that does not respect the law. I believe I am the exact opposite of that.

[Flavet]

I suppose my post was taken down because I expressed my attitude toward a two-time felon's somehow being born again in the eyes of the FBI, the ATF, and simply law-abiding citizens who would not at all appreciate being threatened by such a person's being allowed to keep and bear a deadly weapon. If that suits the rest of the board's population you won't be troubled by my departure.

I dont know if there's a procedure for un-registering here but I would certainly appreciate it if whoever runs this will remove my identification with the aite. If I want to endorse criinal conduct I'll ask Rahm Emmanuel for a job.

[allingeneral]

I have been told the exact opposite; that because I am a resident here in Virginia and want to vote and own a gun here, that I need to go through the restoration process in Virgina. The Florida restoration process is actually much easier than Virginia's, but there is no guarantee that Virginia would "recognize" the restoration of my rights in FL.

My understanding is that since Florida convicted you, only Florida can provide clemency. If Florida sees fit to restore your civil rights under the conviction, then just like the conviction, the restoration of your rights would be accepted nationally.

#3. As I stated above, I wish I'd never gone into Gander Mountain and filled out the form. I was not attempting to deceive the state, or obtain a gun illegally. I could have my wife buy one - my conviction in no way, shape, or form affects my wifes right to own a gun here - and we could use it only on my wooded property - but I'm gonna wait until I can own one legally here in the state. I will be happy with my little BB pistol until my rights are restored. =)

If your wife purchases a firearm and you even place it in your hands, you are committing a crime - "Felon in Possession of a Firearm" pursuant to Virginia Code § 18.2-308.2 which reads in pertinent part:

A. It shall be unlawful for (i) any person who has been convicted of a felony; [...] whether such conviction or adjudication occurred under the laws of the Commonwealth, or any other state, the District of Columbia, the United States or any territory thereof, to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport any firearm or ammunition for a firearm, any stun weapon as defined by § 18.2-308.1, or any explosive material, or to knowingly and intentionally carry about his person, hidden from common observation, any weapon described in subsection A of § 18.2-308. However, such person may possess in his residence or the curtilage thereof a stun weapon as defined by § 18.2-308.1. Any person who violates this section shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

[zephyp]

Well my $0.02. Regardless of the advice of your attorney you lied on the form when you checked the box NO. Whether or not the crime you were convicted of is or is not "a big one" it is still a felony. Whether or not it was sealed is irrelevant. If what you did is ok (checking the box NO as a convicted felon) then where do we draw the line. Who decides what is a big felony or a "victimless" felony that makes it ok to check the NO box. Besides, the box aks are you a convicted felon. There arent any qualifiers (like - "note to felons: if you're conviction was sealed or if it was victimless check NO"). You get my point, I'm sure.

When dealing with buying firearms we must draw a firm hard line somewhere and that line must have penalties for being crossed. As a legal gun owner I demand that the rules be followed simply because breaking them will eventually result in tighter restrictions or loss of rights for all.

In your initial post you asserted that many gun owners may have smoked pot. You didn't get busted for smoking pot. You got busted for selling pot. Big difference. And, IMO you were obviously running with a bad crowd in a bad place. Why else would you find yourself in a position selling pot to an undercover agent. And, it also seems obvious this was something you probably did on a recurring basis.

You've presented your case here and heard what we have to say. We dont make the rules. We only try to understand and follow them. If you want to buy a gun, I suggest you present your case to those who can restore your rights and hear what they have to say.

[allingeneral]

I suppose my post was taken down because I expressed my attitude toward a two-time felon's somehow being born again in the eyes of the FBI, the ATF, and simply law-abiding citizens who would not at all appreciate being threatened by such a person's being allowed to keep and bear a deadly weapon. If that suits the rest of the board's population you won't be troubled by my departure.

I don't know if there's a procedure for un-registering here but I would certainly appreciate it if whoever runs this will remove my identification with the aite. If I want to endorse criinal conduct I'll ask Rahm Emmanuel for a job.

1) Your post wasn't "Taken down". Check page 1 of this thread - we have moved onto another page. We don't just arbitrarily remove posts from the forum unless they are blatant spam or cross way over the lines of decency and respect. Your post did neither.

2) We certainly are in no way trying to "Endorse criminal conduct". Quite the contrary, several of us have made the point that even attempting to fill out the paperwork to purchase a firearm was a no-no. Now we're trying to help him determine how to move beyond that if he so chooses and address the legal system properly in an effort to restore his civil rights.

2) You can't "Unregister", but you don't have to come back if you're no longer interested in the site. I'm sorry you feel that way.

[allingeneral]

Well my $0.02. Regardless of the advice of your attorney you lied on the form when you checked the box NO. Whether or not the crime you were convicted of is or is not "a big one" it is still a felony. Whether or not it was sealed is irrelevant. If what you did is ok (checking the box NO as a convicted felon) then where do we draw the line. Who decides what is a big felony or a "victimless" felony that makes it ok to check the NO box. Besides, the box aks are you a convicted felon. There arent any qualifiers (like - "note to felons: if you're conviction was sealed or if it was victimless check NO"). You get my point, I'm sure.

For reference, here is the text directly from Form 4473:

12.c. ) Have you been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation? (See Important Notice 6, Exception 1.) (YES / NO)

Notice 6 Exception 1:
EXCEPTION 1: A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year, or who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) restored AND (2) the person is not prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12c or 12i, as applicable. A person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence also is not covered by the prohibition unless: (1) the person was represented by a lawyer or gave up the right to a lawyer; and (2) if the person was entitled to a jury, was tried by a jury or gave up the right to a jury trial. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12i.

[jadedone4]

Folk's - just some comments on this thread; some related to the OP, some others related to the responses...

a. The OP has the information that he needs - both from his legal counsel and for purposes here, morale support - NOT moral support - but and understanding that IF he takes the necessary steps and LEGALLY can purchase and own a handgun, that he NOT be treated any differently by pro or anti gun communities and all in-between.

b. I believe that Mod's here stepped in appropriately and prevented this from spiralling downward (name-calling, illicit information or acts and overall just plain dumb comments...) - we (the supporters of 2A, RKBA, etc) have a fundamental responsibility to be RESPONSIBLE citizens - those who oppose us, or even view us with disdain or indifferent opinions, are ALWAYS looking for a "reason" to expunge our integrity and character - in hopes of furthering their cause/agendas. Simply put, when we strap-on our guns (to even include those butt-ugly Glocks) we represent our cause; the same as when we went out in public withour parents - don't know about you, but us kids made DAMN sure we didn't embarass Moms/Pops in public (hell, I'd add Aunts/Uncles, Principals, Scout Leader, Coaches, etc to that list).

c. As stated above, the OP has the information necessary to go-forth and seek a remedy to his situation; leave it at that - let him do so, pass/fail and report back here afterwards. Because the more we go on and on about this subject (minus any direct and actionable direction from the OP) the greater the probability that something will be stated here (once you hit "enter/submit" it is gone into Al Gore's internet, with a shelf-life of infinity) that will not portray this integrity and hard-work of those who created this valuable site and those who support.

.... stepping off the soapbox and turning in the "stump-preacher" temporary day-pass, and heading out to do some SHOOTING....(paper and cardboard first, then clays.... nothing else - just wanted that "on-the-record" in case the store-bought tin foil isn't of quality).

[zephyp]

Well my $0.02. Regardless of the advice of your attorney you lied on the form when you checked the box NO. Whether or not the crime you were convicted of is or is not "a big one" it is still a felony. Whether or not it was sealed is irrelevant. If what you did is ok (checking the box NO as a convicted felon) then where do we draw the line. Who decides what is a big felony or a "victimless" felony that makes it ok to check the NO box. Besides, the box aks are you a convicted felon. There arent any qualifiers (like - "note to felons: if you're conviction was sealed or if it was victimless check NO"). You get my point, I'm sure.

For reference, here is the text directly from Form 4473:

12.c. ) Have you been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation? (See Important Notice 6, Exception 1.) (YES / NO)

Notice 6 Exception 1:
EXCEPTION 1: A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year, or who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) restored AND (2) the person is not prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12c or 12i, as applicable. A person who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence also is not covered by the prohibition unless: (1) the person was represented by a lawyer or gave up the right to a lawyer; and (2) if the person was entitled to a jury, was tried by a jury or gave up the right to a jury trial. Persons subject to this exception should answer “no” to 12i.

I stand corrected, sir.

And to inject a little Star Trek lingo: Dammit Rick I'm a far right conservative wing nut not a walking law encyclopedia...

[allingeneral]

I wasn't out to correct you DK. I think what you said lines up with the verbage on 4473 pretty well. I just wanted to stick the 4473 text in there for clarification and reference.

Also, I agree with jadedone, and had considered locking this thread earlier. I think enough information has been posted at this point that we can safely consider this thread completed/resolved (and now locked).