How Do We Build "The Wall"?

[ShotgunBlast]

Part of Donald Trump's popularity this election cycle is his strong stance on illegal immigration (or immigration altogether, I'm not sure). His populist line of building a wall along the southern border resonates with a lot of people that are tired of illegal immigrants in this country. I get it; I don't like illegal immigration either, but I do know that people are going to come to this country whether our immigration system is working or broken and would much prefer a working system to one that is so broken that people resort to crazy things just to get into this country. But after you get past the initial agreement that we need to do something about illegal immigration (and amnesty is not an answer), how do you actually DO it?

Politifact has a lot of the important numbers so I'll link to that and you can decide for yourself if you believe the numbers or not. Mexico is not paying for the wall, so any talk about that and you're just kidding yourself. So how much would it cost us?

Trump has said the wall could cost $8 billion to $12 billion, be made of precast concrete, and rise 35 to 40 feet, or 50 feet, or higher. He’s said the wall doesn’t need to run the nearly 2,000 miles of the border, but half of that because of natural barriers.

Other groups think the wall would cost more, but let's go with Trump's figures. We have a budget that I think we all agree is bloated, but if you try to cut a nickel from it you have people on Capital Hill screaming bloody murder. I wouldn't hold my breath looking to our annual budget, I mean omnibus CR, to find money to pay for this wall.

The plan outlined on Trump’s campaign website invokes Section 326 of the Patriot Act, which presses financial institutions to verify the identity of customers who seek to open accounts.

Trump says he would introduce a "proposed rule" amending a code of federal financial regulation to include money transfer companies in the definition of financial institutions. He would also redefine "account" to include wire transfers. The desired result: No immigrant would be able to send money outside the United States unless they show documentation proving their legal status.

The campaign page linked from Politifact doesn't mention a proposed rule anymore, and Trump's immigration page still says that Mexico is going to pay for the wall. Again, good luck with that. I am concerned with his redefinition of "account" and adding money transfer companies as financial institutions. Western Union is not the same as Wells Fargo. Also, the "papers please" requirement to send money outside of the US is ridiculous. And I thought we were supposed to be reducing burdensome regulations, not increasing it.

But let's set ALL of that aside and pretend that somehow money did appear to pay for a wall and that somehow the US made arrangements with ALL of the landowners on the Texas border to put a wall on their property. And it is a glorious wall, just like Trump envisioned. 50 feet high and stretches for the 1000 miles that Trump wanted. What does that accomplish against a 51 foot ladder? Or a tunnel? If it's a concrete wall, how do border agents even see who's coming up towards the wall? How much more likely are people willing to risk trying to cross in any of the 1000 miles where there is no wall?

After you think about this for more than 30 seconds, does anyone here actually think a wall is going to be built? And if you don't think a wall is going to be built, what exactly is Trump's plan on immigration?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... co-border/

[kelu]

Guess what... Israel is building a wall, partially paid by American taxpayers. I guess it works for them?
Mexico is going to build a wall, also paid partially by American taxpayers, on their southern border. I guess it's going to work for them?
Then, why not for US?

[ShotgunBlast]

Guess what... Israel is building a wall, partially paid by American taxpayers. I guess it works for them?
Mexico is going to build a wall, also paid partially by American taxpayers, on their southern border. I guess it's going to work for them?
Then, why not for US?

You have to admit that a 60 mile wall that separates Israel from the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip is just a tiny bit different than our 2000 mile border with a country that isn't actively looking to destroy our country.

Maybe you can help me, because all I see about Mexico's wall is a newspaper on the southern border doing an op-ed calling for a wall to be built and not actual government officials doing the ceremonial breaking ground photo op.

And even if all of this US-funded wall building did happen, the original question still remains - how do we make OUR wall a reality? Our allies aren't going to pass the can around and start a collection to fund the project.

[kelu]

Yeah, a tiny bit different, but not that much. Doable, especially combined with surveillance tech.
What you're saying is that if we can build houses, we can't build skyscrapers too, because they're much bigger; Yes, we can!

[ShotgunBlast]

No, what I'm saying is how do we fund the building of the skyscraper when we print money as it is to build houses.

[Snakester]

I hate to say it but , I don't think we will ever get to see if Trump will build a wall. If "Hitllary" gets elected it may be better to be on the other side of the wall !

[dorminWS]

You have to admit that a 60 mile wall that separates Israel from the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip is just a tiny bit different than our 2000 mile border with a country that isn't actively looking to destroy our country.

To be fair, you'd also have to correct your
analysis by expressing the cost of Israel's wall and the US's wall as a percentage of their GNP or something similar.

[ShotgunBlast]

You have to admit that a 60 mile wall that separates Israel from the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip is just a tiny bit different than our 2000 mile border with a country that isn't actively looking to destroy our country.

To be fair, you'd also have to correct your
analysis by expressing the cost of Israel's wall and the US's wall as a percentage of their GNP or something similar.

Totally agree, but I don't have the figures for the cost of Israel's wall and how much the US may or may not be funding. Considering their debt to GDP is only 61% compared to our 104.5% I hope they are funding it themselves.

The other half of my reply reflects the intention of building each wall. I'm not against walls; I have them on my house with doors that lock too. I don't have a gated fence or dobermans roaming the property though. It's proportional to the potential threats I have in my neighborhood. I'm all for Israel building a wall (bonus points if they're paying for it) to keep active people that want to destroy their country out. I would imagine their plan also calls for troops to monitor the wall. That sounds proportional to the threats that they've been experiencing for decades. I'm less inclined to support spending money building a wall to keep out people that are trying to escape the abject poverty of their home country. If someone is willing to risk their life traveling thousands of miles through god only knows what danger just to get to our southern border, that's a person I want to at least look at getting a work visa for. Get them in our system (not the welfare ones), get them paying taxes, evaluate their background (if any recorded one exists) and if not having them in our system creates a background for them to keep clean, and if all goes well over some period of time get them on the road of becoming a citizen. If they don't keep clean they get the boot. But as it stands now, our process doesn't allow that which is why they just cross over illegally and Trump's immigration plan does nothing to fix it.

[dorminWS]

I have no problem with giving them work visas and letting them come and work and pay taxes but not draw "entitlements". I am not alright with giving them a "path to citizenship", because they are not assimilating. They will change the nature of our society because they come from a socialist catholic country and will out breed us and then out vote us.

[kelu]

You are just describing the "big, shiny door" in Trump plan. Check everyone, let only good ones.
About the threat level: read about mexican gangs that are terrorizing cities on the border. Should we do something about that? Or about hundreds of tons of drugs that pass the border? Or the MS13 gangs? Or ISIS members disguised as south americans? Just let everyone pass?

[ShotgunBlast]

I have no problem with giving them work visas and letting them come and work and pay taxes but not draw "entitlements". I am not alright with giving them a "path to citizenship", because they are not assimilating. They will change the nature of our society because they come from a socialist catholic country and will out breed us and then out vote us.

After five or ten years on a work visa, shouldn't we want some path to citizenship if they are calling the US their home? If someone has gone through our schools and has a good occupation, aren't they invested enough to warrant at least having the opportunity of becoming a citizen? Or do we just kick them out and tell them to move on to another country? Oh, but because their thoughts and beliefs are different than yours they should be denied? Isn't the mixing of thoughts and beliefs from many different cultures what made the US the melting pot that it is? The idea that we can have all of these different people coming together AND still be a great country? The days of WASP America are over man. If you're not comfortable with that, tell your kids to have more kids and tell their kids to have even more kids.

You are just describing the "big, shiny door" in Trump plan. Check everyone, let only good ones.
About the threat level: read about mexican gangs that are terrorizing cities on the border. Should we do something about that? Or about hundreds of tons of drugs that pass the border? Or the MS13 gangs? Or ISIS members disguised as south americans? Just let everyone pass?

I'm describing the big shiny door in Trump's plan because that's all 90% of Trump supporters can identify as part of Trump's plan as well as for many a MAJOR reason they're voting for him. For giggles though, let's go through his 10-point plan.

Donald J. Trump’s 10 Point Plan to Put America First
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/immigration/

1. Begin working on an impenetrable physical wall on the southern border, on day one. Mexico will pay for the wall. Not gonna happen.

2. End catch-and-release. Under a Trump administration, anyone who illegally crosses the border will be detained until they are removed out of our country. Great, he's enforcing the laws already on the books.

3. Move criminal aliens out day one, in joint operations with local, state, and federal law enforcement. We will terminate the Obama administration’s deadly, non-enforcement policies that allow thousands of criminal aliens to freely roam our streets. Great, he's enforcing the laws already on the books.

4. End sanctuary cities. Great, he's enforcing the laws already on the books.

5. Immediately terminate President Obama’s two illegal executive amnesties. All immigration laws will be enforced - we will triple the number of ICE agents. Anyone who enters the U.S. illegally is subject to deportation. That is what it means to have laws and to have a country. Great, he's enforcing the laws already on the books.

6. Suspend the issuance of visas to any place where adequate screening cannot occur, until proven and effective vetting mechanisms can be put into place. Pretty much means a big chunk of the world will not be able to travel to the US

7. Ensure that other countries take their people back when we order them deported. How do you force a government to take a person?

8. Ensure that a biometric entry-exit visa tracking system is fully implemented at all land, air, and sea ports. 1984 is calling.

9. Turn off the jobs and benefits magnet. Many immigrants come to the U.S. illegally in search of jobs, even though federal law prohibits the employment of illegal immigrants. How about making it easier to get work visas instead of making it harder for employers? Isn't he supposed to be a businessman?

10. Reform legal immigration to serve the best interests of America and its workers. What does this mean?

The liberal media bias must be stifling all of those stories of Mexican gangs "terrorizing" border cities and I challenge you to find anything worse on the border than what we already have in gang cities in the US. As for the drugs, legalization would go a long way with lowering prices and making it less profitable to ship drugs across the border. How profitable was the bootlegging business after prohibition ended? The failed drug war has gone on long enough and has cost way too much money, cost way too many lives, and has imprisoned way too many people (the vast majority of them being non-violent). You're for limited government, right? Time has already reported on how marijuana legalization in the US has already cut the amount of marijuana being smuggled from Mexico to the US. Less marijuana being shipped means less cash for cartels to purchase guns which means less violence. http://time.com/3801889/us-legalization ... ana-trade/

You can come up with all of the boogeymen you want to scare people into being against letting people in from other countries, but we all know that 1. the VAST majority of people coming in from other countries are neither gang members nor ISIS supporters, and 2. your idea, even with you yourself not being a native to this country, isn't even original. Every wave of immigration into this country has faced opposition from those already here, but what's really funny is the recipients of that opposition go ahead and impose it upon the next wave of immigrants.

[WRW]

I don't recall mention of Catholics, Irish, and Jews entering this Country illegally. What a misleading cartoon. And, yes, it would be nice to have our elected officials enforce laws that are already on the books.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[ShotgunBlast]

I don't recall mention of Catholics, Irish, and Jews entering this Country illegally. What a misleading cartoon. And, yes, it would be nice to have our elected officials enforce laws that are already on the books.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

If you recall, our immigration process at that time was also a little simpler:

Step 1. Get off the boat at Ellis Island.
Step 2. Pass a medical test for diseases.

Ellis Island processed as many as 5,000 people per day. For those concerned with immigrants not being assimilated, when Frederic Howe became commissioner of Ellis Island, he set out to transform the facility into a comfortable waiting room for newcomers to America. He wanted to have immigrants well started on their war to becoming good American citizens before they left the island. He set up partnerships with local school boards to teach English to arriving immigrants, provided what one magazine called a beginner's class in American citizenship, and endeavored to Americanize the immigrant. Can we not do that in the 21st century along the southern border? Heck, even the nearby elementary school, where you'll have to look real hard to find a single white student, provides assistance in teaching English to new children as well as adults.

This is why I volunteer at my local school - to help influence those that I would not otherwise see. Like I said in my original post, these people are coming whether I like it or not. I too do not want to see this country adopt ideals that worship the government, but I don't have any kids to pass my ideals on to and even if I did it would only be one or two. By helping out in the education system, I can reach dozens of children at a time.

If you want this country to change trajectory, I suggest you and like-minded people get involved in the local schools and show the next generation there is another way to think other than how the government tells them to.

[bali]

Back then, there were no laws keeping people out. Now there are and have been for decades. So how about they obey the law? Why dont we make it a felony to be here without permission?

[bali]

Back then, there were no laws keeping people out. Now there are and have been for decades. So how about they obey the law? Why dont we make it a felony to be here without permission?

[bali]

we dont need a wall. it would cost a fortune and take a decade to complete. However, a double fence of razor wire, we can toss up in a week. You'd need the same riflemen, and anti-tunneling dogs and radar for the wall, that you'll need for the double fence. The double fence has worked for our prisons for a century now. Build it with the same inmate labor that we now use for firefighting out west. With National Guard supervison. The militias would man the rifle towers for free.

here is how it's done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nmQmVeUF_o

all the fence has to do is slow them down while the riflemen kill them. Put up a wooden tower every 1/4 mile. after you shoot the first few thousand of them, they'll stop trying you.