Bundy Arrested: 1 dead following a shootout

[MarcSpaz]

There are two sides to every story, but this sounds like local PD and FBI have F'ed up big-time.

Bundy and other protesters who have been accused of taking over a Gov building got ambushed on the way to a town meeting. The SP and FBI shut down the road and ambushed them while driving.

I read that because the protesters are not violating any laws by camping on the grounds or using the building, so the police have been arresting people participating in the protest for traffic infractions.

Really... Throwing them in jail for a traffic violation? You disagree with there politics, can't arrest them for exercising their rights and having an opinion that is in opposition of the government, so the cops arrest them on traffic charges. One of the stops ending in a gun battle and someone is dead. That's the best you can come up with? What a bunch of jerks.


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ore ... es-n504911

[FiremanBob]

I do not believe the official story. These men are too knowledgeable and disciplined to brandish a firearm out of the vehicle's window during a traffic stop.

Ghosts of Waco and Ruby Ridge roam the roads of Oregon today.

[scott9050]

Reports are that the one killed had his hands up, a story being repeated by a state Representative.

[Reverenddel]

(shrugs) Everytime the Feds try to handle a hostage negotiation, some one ends up shot...

...unless you're muslim, then they put on the kneepads, and relax their jaws.

[jdonovan]

I'm sure there is a bit of misinformation flowing about what transpired. I'm taking a more wait and see approach until the detail around the events are a bit more clear.

[Monkey]

I'm sure there is a bit of misinformation flowing about what transpired. I'm taking a more wait and see approach until the detail around the events are a bit more clear.

Agree.

That said, it's a contest as to who can get their story out fastest with the most credibility.

After all, one should never let a good tragedy go to waste...[/sarcasm]

[thekinetic]

It has begun. So how long before the goose steppers come in the night for us patriots?

[MarcSpaz]

FBI and local PD are kicking the media out. Sounds like Ruby Ridge and Waco are about to be repeated.

[jdonovan]

so now that I've had time to sift through some information, I think I can distil my feelings down to:

If you wanted a peaceful, non-violent protest, to bring sympathy and support to your cause, leave the guns at home.

If you wanted an armed stand off and to go down in a hail of bullets, you picked a poor location and executed a tactically unsound plan.

I'm not sure what the goal was, but it seems to have missed on at least 2 significant possible goals.

[kelu]

They wanted attention to their cause. A bunch of people protesting unarmed in front of a local town hall would be not noticed by anybody.
From what I've read, either the American law is completely f-up, or the corruption among officials is metastasized, and the American people will need to proceed to a painful surgery to heal.
Some interesting points here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U-jTfQJYtM

[MarcSpaz]

So, it is starting to look like the guy who was killed was charging police after trying to escape by vehicle.

Mike Arnold, Bundy's attorney, read a statement afterward in which Bundy urged those still at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge to leave.

These charges are BS. They are trying to get two people out of jail who are victims of double jeopardy... actually, its worse than double jeopardy. These guys got convicted of a crime. They paid their fines and did their jail time. After they were release and paid their debt, some bureaucrat decided that they didn't spend enough time in jail, even though they served their sentence, and these two guys went back to jail a second time, for the same crime, and were completely deprived of a luxury of double jeopardy via a second trial.

Our government is way out of control and they should not be getting away with this. The sad party of the whole "stand-off" is, the protest became the story and no one really realizes that two guys had their constitutional rights grossly violated to the point that they are being punished in prison twice for one crime.

To make things worse, there is actually evidence that the two men are likely innocent but the prosecution refused to disclose this dependence in discovery and the courts are refusing to take appropriate action to hear an appeal and force discovery.

When does this crap end? Obviously its not the entire government and all of the law enforcement community, but if the people don't take a stand to have their voices heard and expose the corruption, it will never end.

Of all the crap I have been hearing against the protesters, the only thing I agree with is the fact that they either should not have brought arms... or if they did, they should have kept that information a secret and stowed the weapons until/if they were needed. The fact that they publicly showed up with weapons and made a point of acknowledging it is likely the only thing that is getting them in legal trouble.

We have the Constitutional Right to defend ourselves, but bringing the weapons into the arena of the protest was not a good idea. CC your pistol. Keep the rifle in your truck or tent and just keep quite about it.

Fox is going down the toilet BTW... http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/27/ar ... ndoff.html

[Swampman]

IMO Fox has been heading south for some time now. Quit watching those idiots quite a while ago.

[Reverenddel]

YUP! I have been saying Fox is going "Left" ( I WOULD NEVER BESMIRCH THE "SOUTH") for some time!

[Swampman]

Semantics, Rev! It's semantics! But I get your drift!

[grumpyMSG]

Just had this pop up on the news feed on Facebook:

http://controversialtimes.com/news/brea ... rce=GStyle

It would appear the individual that was shot, was driving the vehicle. They had been stopped at least once and fled. The initial stop is in the first 8 minutes or so of the video. If you watch from about 9 minutes in you will see the approach to the road block the swerve to miss it and running into the snow. Drone operator momentarily loses vision of crashed vehicle when he was changing camera's magnification level, driver had exited vehicle by the time he re-finds vehicle. Arms appear to be straight out to the side and then he draws them in and out and gets shot.

I just want to know who the idiot was that almost got hit by the fleeing truck, he ran out as the truck swerved and almost got hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ

[jdonovan]

as with most stories, there were elements of truth to what was being said, but the video shows a slightly different progression of events.

[Swampman]

The guy was shot for going to his pockets. My impression - the cops don't wait to see what he is coming out with. The old saying, "Dead men tell no tales" comes to mind. I understand that I wasn't there, the video was of poor quality, and I've never been a LEO so I may have done the same thing. Seems like trigger fingers are pretty itchy these days.

[jdonovan]

When you've got a bunch of armed men,
Who have already run from a traffic stop,
who have just tried to run a road block,
who have just about struck a LEO with a speeding truck,
who immediately jumped out of their vehicle
who have sworn in public interviews "I'm never going to jail"

It changes dramatically how the interaction with LEO's is going to play out if you make them fearful for their safety.

We don't have the audio track, but I'm fairly certain he was not obeying the officers voice commands. It looked a lot like a person behaving in a confused/indecisive manner, trying to make a fight/flight decision. How many moves to the belt or the jacket do you allow the subject to make? If you wait for the gun to appear you might not see it and react in time to not get shot first.

We have the luxury of watching the video in non-real time and analyzing each movement by every player with slo-mo, zoom, rewind. The people involved had no such options.

[MarcSpaz]

I watched the video on a 64" monitor. The guy had his hands up and they didn't drop until after one of the cops in the street fired. It looks like he dropped his arms because he took a shot or two to the body, and then everyone else started shooting. The LEO on the street closest too him show signs of muzzle flash and wrist whip before the guys hands come down. The LEO was firing as he was walking up the snow bank.

I would watch it on a very large screen so the pixelated image has more obvious color and movement. You will see what I saw.

[mamabearCali]

I did what Marc said......the FBI screwed up and a man is dead. His hands were up till he got shot.


I try really hard to give LEOs the benefit of the doubt, but in this case they shot a man who was surrendering.

It is disgusting to see.

They were itching to take out these guys and now they have. Congrats to them. Sorry for us.

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