Lethal force in Va?

[HilarityEnsues]

Hey guys, I'm wondering about specifics on laws on lethal force in VA. I work in a bad area which seems to be getting worse this year as sales associate. I always CCW at work (no permit) but when I hit Colonial Williamsburg I transfer to my open carry holster.

The reason I ask is I've had one occurrence at work where a spice addict came and asking for newports which we no longer carry, and when I informed her we didn't have them she started talking poop and stood at the door on the way out stating she "had something for me in the car"

I get out of work at 1030pm and go straight to Colonial Williamsburg for my nightly walk. Last night on the last leg I was passing through a low income area on York St when two wanna be gangsters saw the gun on my hip, crossed to the other side of the street, once again talking poop and after making it about 20 feet away from me I heard the slide of a handgun rack 4-5 times. I didn't hear rounds hit the ground so I just briefly looked back and continued walking.

I know the first situation doesn't warrant immediate deadly force but the second one had me shaken up once it settled in back in the car.

I'm wondering if the weapon has to be pointed at my person for me to legally fire upon someone.

[SHMIV]

Seems like the Burg has gotten dangerous since I left. Aside from the mention of CW, it almost sounds like you're describing the attitude over in Grove.

My personal experience with Williamsburg hoodlums is that they are mostly mouth. I've always just walked tall (well, as tall as a short guy can walk, lol) and ignored the riff raff.

Probably, it helped that I had reason to be acquainted with the riff raff, and had gone through some effort to convince them that I was a bit unhinged. But, that was years ago. That crowd has been replaced new hoodlums.

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[HilarityEnsues]

Yeah I know they're mostly talk. Williamsburg is going to get worse, Downtown Newport News Va is tearing down the projects and moving all the people (along with the gangs) to Ft Eustis, Denbiegh and Jefferson. I work pretty much right between ft eustis and denbeigh blvd and theres been 30 shootings since I started in January, about 8 fatal a one that involved an actual assault rifle. 39 rounds fired in a the span of a minute, 1 dead 3 injured.

[MarcSpaz]

So, I would higher a defensive attorney and ask for advice. Anyone who carries needs a lawyer before the "need" a lawyer.

Since I am not a lawyer, I can only give you my personal opinions which are "use at your own risk".

I interpret the law of VA, as well as natural law, that every person has the right to defend themselves. I feel that if you are in a situation where any reasonable thinkinging person would have reason to believe their life or the life of another is in immediate danger of loss or gross bodily harm, you would be justified in taking a life.

Will you be left allone or acquitted if charged? I can't say, but at least you would be alive and in good conscience.

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[dorminWS]

The fly in that ointment is that whether use of deadly force was justified depends upon the facts.

And the "facts" that the decision as to whether your action was justified won't be what you perceived them to be. They will be what a judge or jury perceived them to be; and those perceptions will be based upon a "swearing match" where each side swears that their version of the facts is the absolute and unvarnished truth. Just look at the "hands up-don't shoot" controversy in Ferguson, MO. Wildly different versions of the facts were offered; some of them based upon bald-faced lies.

It will all come down to how lucky you were in happening to have comparatively honest, reliable and believable witnesses, how good the lawyer is for each side, and whether the judge and the prosecuting attorney are honest and even handed rather than politically and/or ideologically motivated.

The bottom line (besides that MarcSpaz is absolutely right that you should have a retainer agreement with a good lawyer) is that you should be damned careful and extremely judicious in your use of deadly force in any jurisdiction, lest the life you preserve becomes a living hell.

[MarcSpaz]

What I want to know is... If I happen to walk into a mall bathroom, open a stall not noticing its occupied, and the guy inside the stall is strapping what appear to be explosives to his body; if I draw and pop that dude in the head, how would that go? Hypothetically, of course.

I mean, immediately, my assumption is that in the next few seconds, a lot of people are going to die. But what if the guy is with security or is some jackass with fake explosives? In the interest of self defense and defense of the country, would someone get a free pass or would they get slaughtered?

That question should bare some interesting fruit at the water cooler. LoL

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[dorminWS]

... If I happen to walk into a mall bathroom, open a stall not noticing its occupied, and the guy inside the stall is strapping what appear to be explosives to his body; if I draw and pop that dude in the head, how would that go? Hypothetically, of course.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

If you fire into explosives?
Well, Hypothetically, I'd say it MIGHT go BOOM!

[SHMIV]

Marc, that is an oddly specific and random hypothetical, lol.

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[MarcSpaz]

... If I happen to walk into a mall bathroom, open a stall not noticing its occupied, and the guy inside the stall is strapping what appear to be explosives to his body; if I draw and pop that dude in the head, how would that go? Hypothetically, of course.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

If you fire into explosives?
Well, Hypothetically, I'd say it MIGHT go BOOM!

That's why you aim for the head and hope he doesn't have a dead-man switch activated.

Marc, that is an oddly specific and random hypothetical, lol.

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Hahaha

If you are going to fantasize, you might as well go all the way. After worrying about physical security and reviewing intel on terrorist for 17 years, I've had time to run all the scenarios through my head.

You should hear the one about an active shooter at the mall while I happen to have my 300 BO broken down and in my backpack. LOL

[ProShooter]

I think that you should stop looking for reasons to shoot someone.

[MarcSpaz]

I think that you should stop looking for reasons to shoot someone.

Who? The OP? or me? Cuz I'm just joking around for entertainment value. Who the heck walks around the mall with an AR in their backpack? LOL

[ProShooter]

I think that you should stop looking for reasons to shoot someone.

Who? The OP? or me? Cuz I'm just joking around for entertainment value. Who the heck walks around the mall with an AR in their backpack? LOL

I was joking with you. I'm laughing about the guy in the bathroom with the bomb. If he's got a bomb, you've got bigger problems than deadly force justification, lol.

[MarcSpaz]

LoL. Stupid sarcasm font broke again.

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[grumpyMSG]

Your scenario has one big pile of problems with it. He wouldn't be strapping it on in the bathroom. He'd be walking in the door with it on and he wouldn't go to the bathroom because, well why would he take a $h!+? It would reduce the effectiveness of his bomb...




Cause you know it's going everywhere

[MarcSpaz]

That is a sight I really didn't want in my head... yuck.

[ProShooter]

Maybe you misunderstood the bomb that he was dropping in the bathroom?

[MarcSpaz]

Hahaha! That's so wrong.

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[HilarityEnsues]

Not taking any chances out on the east end of Williamsburg anymore. Gun goes with me to Grove.

An old friend moved back to the area and he was assaulted as we we hanging out one night.

2 days prior we met this thug who made us all uneasy. Drunk all day every day, unemployed and got canned from a local MMA training facility for being loose cannon and poor sport. Rumor around Grove is he gets drunk, starting fights and even beats his GF on a regular basis.

We were all over at my buddies place Wednesday night enjoying a few beers and playing video games. This guy came over, pounded on the door and asked to come in. He sat down across from me and my gut was telling me something wasn't right. He was so wasted he couldn't even keep his head up.

I was talking to my friend and this guy looked over at me and told me to shut my big ass up. I shot him a look and just ignored him. He grabbed a open vodka bottle that my buddies GF had left a few nights earlier and asked for a coke or pepsi. My buddy told him theres one some in the fridge and to help himself. He immediately got upset and started talking crap, calling him a lazy POS.

A few minutes later he demanded to play the game and my buddy told him after his character died, he once again got upset and started talking more crap and my buddy pointed to the door and told him to leave.

He got up and stood directly over my buddy talking crap, and was told to get the f*** out. He immediately pounced on my buddy and tried to wrap his hands around his neck, but my buddy got him in a headlock and grabbed a handful of dreadlocks and wouldn't let him go.

Me and the other guy there tried to break it up and ended up waking my friends mother up, she came out and immediately wedged herself between the guy and my friend. This punk pushed her off and in the process hit her in the eye and knocked the lamp over.

Me and the other guy told my buddy to let him go and we'd get him out of the house. As soon as he lets him go, before anyone could get a hold of him he unleashed a fury of uppercuts into my buddies face. I ended up grabbing the half gallon vodka bottle and cracked this thug ass POS over the back of the head with it. We carried his ass out into the street and he got kicked in the face and told not to show himself around here anymore. My buddy had a tooth knocked out and his mother got a black eye.

Given my buddy grew up in the area he talked his mom out of calling police and instead called his father. Batshit crazy ex nam vet. He was forced to go into Vietnam to avoid jailtime after getting arrested during the Wounded Knee Incident in 1973.

He dropped off a pump action shotgun for my friends mother and a 45 for my friend. I'm not going back into that neighborhood without my handgun now. f*** uncivilized thugs.

[ShotgunBlast]

Sounds like you guys should be more mindful about who you let into the house.

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[HilarityEnsues]

Sad part is my buddy knew this guy and the rumors but still let him in the house.

When I first met him last Monday he seemed easily irritable. The other guy who was there knew about him too but didn't say anything. All he said this morning is he told him not to come arpund anymore the next day or there will be hell to pay, POS was so wasted he doesn't remember anything about it.

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