New Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle in 5.56/.223

[10mmSnob]

Not sure what the market is for this, especially with the $75 10 rd magazine (shopruger.com):

http://www.ruger.com/index.html

I can see the appeal of the .308 variant, but not a 5.56 when there are as many ARs around as there are (not to mention STANAG magazines).

[jdonovan]

IMO they blew it when they chose not to have a STANAG mag.

If I want a non-high precision 5.56 bolt gun, looks like the Mosberg MVP all the way.

[BertMacklin]

Figured it might have something to do with not wanting to completely redesign the bolt to strip rounds from an AR mag, like Mossberg had to do.

[MarcSpaz]

I don't know that I would go with the Mossberg either. It weighs as much as an M4, has the same barrel length as a non-NFA patrol rifle, and still fires a .223/5.56 round.

If I was going to go with a 16" 5.56, the Sig 516 Patrol has a selector switch to turn off the auto-loading feature. The Sig 716 Patrol is the .308 version of the same concepts. You have to pull the charging handle to chamber each round.

You would get the same effect when the Sig fires in manual mode as you would any bolt gun (no recoil from bolt travel or moving parts), plus you have the luxury of throwing a switch for auto-loading AND you still have the lego/Mr. Potatohead accessory options of a modular rifle.

In all honesty, a high-power bolt-action rifle with less than a 20" long barrel and shorter than a 9" twist rate seems counter productive to what I imaging I would be looking to accomplish... which for me would be reaching out further and more accurately that my AR15 platform rifle can.

[BertMacklin]

I don't know that I would go with the Mossberg either. It weighs as much as an M4, has the same barrel length as a non-NFA patrol rifle, and still fires a .223/5.56 round.

If I was going to go with a 16" 5.56, the Sig 516 Patrol has a selector switch to turn off the auto-loading feature. The Sig 716 Patrol is the .308 version of the same concepts. You have to pull the charging handle to chamber each round.

You would get the same effect when the Sig fires in manual mode as you would any bolt gun (no recoil from bolt travel or moving parts), plus you have the luxury of throwing a switch for auto-loading AND you still have the lego/Mr. Potatohead accessory options of a modular rifle.

In all honesty, a high-power bolt-action rifle with less than a 20" long barrel and shorter than a 9" twist rate seems counter productive to what I imaging I would be looking to accomplish... which for me would be reaching out further and more accurately that my AR15 platform rifle can.

But this costs around 1/3 of a Sig, pricing of the MVP may be the one thing keeping afloat. Longevity and reliability vs an AR of the same price may make it worth it to some people, especially as a varmint rifle.

[MarcSpaz]

I see what you are saying... but at least slap an 18"-20" 1 in 9 barrel on it though. That can't affect the price more than a few dollars at worst.

EDIT: Looks like they make one MVP Flex Sporter with a 20" 1:9 bbl for $1,000.

[BertMacklin]

I see what you are saying... but at least slap an 18"-20" 1 in 9 barrel on it though. That can't affect the price more than a few dollars at worst.

EDIT: Looks like they make one MVP Flex Sporter with a 20" 1:9 bbl for $1,000.

A bit more than a few dollars but they still provide it. The original 16" makes me think back to the mini-14/30 barrels that were pencil thin a few years back. One had the option, at one point, between a full length barrel 16" with no muzzle device or the same length barrel minus an inch or so for a permanently attached flash-hider. The shorter, muzzle device, barrel sacrificed some range no doubt but shot to shot accuracy was better maintained via the stiffer barrel, not by the longer one. The fairly thick profile and light action leads to decent, not precise, accuracy but the real benefit, think again varmint or combat or otherwise high volume, is that barrel deformation would be limited on a short thick barrel.

[MarcSpaz]

I noticed that a lot of companies make longer bbls that are thinner. Many of them say its to save weight. I would rather have the heavier barrel for better heat management and accuracy.

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[0ne5hot]

I don't really see the point of a 223/5.56 bolt gun, because an AR can do pretty much everything a bolt gun can and a lot of things a bolt gun can't do. As long as you don't abuse your equipment it will continue to work long after you have left this plane of existence.

A "friend" of mine has several ARs that are setup for different jobs, a 16" "dissipator" with a heavy barrel which is ~9.6lbs, a 16" "carbine" with lightweight barrel which is ~6.6lbs, and a 20" A2 with a heavy barrel is ~10.2lbs (to be fair the A2 has a cleaning kit in the stock). That is with all three setup up for iron sights, with no mags or ammo.

When it comes to accuracy they all are about the same ~1-1.5 moa from a prone position using sandbags. "He" doesn't think "he" will ever shoot enough ammo at one time to start warping the barrel on the carbine yeah it gets warm but "he" is not fan of just dumping ammo at a target, cause "Allah" doesn't guide "his" rounds and "He" hast to pay for them cause "Uncle Sugar" won't give "him" any kickbacks.

The carbine is "his" general purpose rifle, the dissipator is still kind of a range toy but after more use it probably will become "his" go to around the farm, and if everything goes full retard "he" is grabbing "his" A2.

[BertMacklin]

I don't really see the point of a 223/5.56 bolt gun, because an AR can do pretty much everything a bolt gun can and a lot of things a bolt gun can't do. As long as you don't abuse your equipment it will continue to work long after you have left this plane of existence.

A "friend" of mine has several ARs that are setup for different jobs, a 16" "dissipator" with a heavy barrel which is ~9.6lbs, a 16" "carbine" with lightweight barrel which is ~6.6lbs, and a 20" A2 with a heavy barrel is ~10.2lbs (to be fair the A2 has a cleaning kit in the stock). That is with all three setup up for iron sights, with no mags or ammo.

When it comes to accuracy they all are about the same ~1-1.5 moa from a prone position using sandbags. "He" doesn't think "he" will ever shoot enough ammo at one time to start warping the barrel on the carbine yeah it gets warm but "he" is not fan of just dumping ammo at a target, cause "Allah" doesn't guide "his" rounds and "He" hast to pay for them cause "Uncle Sugar" won't give "him" any kickbacks.

The carbine is "his" general purpose rifle, the dissipator is still kind of a range toy but after more use it probably will become "his" go to around the farm, and if everything goes full retard "he" is grabbing "his" A2.

Perhaps you're right but the more I think about it the more curious I become of this beast.

The fact that you could pair one with an AR-10 or M1A or AR-15 to make better use of an existing stock of mags and ammo, without the full cost of cloning a rifle. Perhaps a burial candidate, or long term term storage, as one wouldn't need to worry particularly about running it too dry or wet or covered in grease. Beauty of this is that you could abuse it, and it would probably take it.

The threaded barreled models could provide quite a utility as well. You wouldn't need to adjust gas if you put a can on it.

I am at least amused by the clever design, enough to know it will fit several roles well enough to survive for a while.

[10mmSnob]

"The general-purpose rifle will do equally well for all but specialized hunting, as well as for fighting; thus it must be powerful enough to kill any living target of reasonable size. If you insist upon a definition of 'reasonable size,' let us introduce an arbitrary mass figure of about 1,000 lb (454 kg)."
-Jeff Cooper

I also think that they're also starting to stray away from the original intent of the rifle (to reflect Jeff Cooper's ideas) with anything less than a .308 because I wouldn't be comfortable trying to take down anything weighting 1000 lbs with a .223.

[Reverenddel]

We're debating the "need" of it, but lets focus on two issues Ruger screwed up:
1.) Not STANAG. Enough said right there. Hell, they didn't make the MINI-14 MAGS fit it!
2.) Saturated market. There are enough bolt action "Sniper" versions, that can be mod'd for hardly anything to do the same thing, only better.

(shrug) Now, the Mossberg MVP in .308? Yeah that's on my list. Because I like the fact I can use AR-10 mags.

[MarcSpaz]

"The general-purpose rifle will do equally well for all but specialized hunting, as well as for fighting; thus it must be powerful enough to kill any living target of reasonable size. If you insist upon a definition of 'reasonable size,' let us introduce an arbitrary mass figure of about 1,000 lb (454 kg)."
-Jeff Cooper

I also think that they're also starting to stray away from the original intent of the rifle (to reflect Jeff Cooper's ideas) with anything less than a .308 because I wouldn't be comfortable trying to take down anything weighting 1000 lbs with a .223.

There are not too many rounds that are going to give you an immediate effect on a living creature at 1,000 lbs from a "One Shot, One Kill" prospective, unless it's a head shot. However, .243, .30-06 and .308 have all been used successfully for defense against humans as well as hunting 1,500 lb bear and moose.

If I was going to own just one rifle... it would have to be a semi-auto .308, but I am having a hard time believing that if I use a 5.56 to shoot a 1,500 lb grizzly in the head, heart or lungs from 100 meters or closer, that it won't die fairly quickly. Now, if I dump 10 or 15 rounds center mass into a charging grizzly... no doubt in my mind the creature is not going to make it.

In either case... that Ruger seems to be a nitch item. You max out at about 600 meters with that cartridge, regardless of the rifle it comes out of. I doubt it is any more accurate than a quality semi-auto. The only draw is if you are a Ruger fan-boy and you like the cosmetics. Someone could argue cost savings compared to my Sig, but after buying a few spare mags... your savings is gone.

[0ne5hot]

I think Ruger should just go full retard and make a scout in 30-06...kind of like a modern '03 springfield

Cause I would get it in a heartbeat.

[MarcSpaz]

Everyone knows... you never go full retard.

[0ne5hot]

Everyone knows... you never go full retard.

And that is why nobody expects it...

[Reverenddel]

Now ONESHOT has hit it PERFECTLY!

If someone built a GP Bolt action Scout in .30-06, that would be an AWESOME all-around gun!

As long as Tug is in the chopper with my satellite dish? I'm a'ight with it.

[Swampman]

Okay fellas, since I (admittedly) don't know sh!t about guns/ballistics/etc., illuminate me on your choices of a "good all-around" rifle. They say ignorance is bliss. I'm tired of being blissful.

[0ne5hot]

Okay fellas, since I (admittedly) don't know sh!t about guns/ballistics/etc., illuminate me on your choices of a "good all-around" rifle. They say ignorance is bliss. I'm tired of being blissful.

You must be trying to start a flame war... But I'll bite anyway, I would say that a "good all-around rifle" is a 30-06 from any reputable manufacturer. You can get ammo anywhere, bullet selection is almost limitless, and it has been used to kill pretty much everything on the planet.

[jdonovan]

Okay fellas, since I (admittedly) don't know sh!t about guns/ballistics/etc., illuminate me on your choices of a "good all-around" rifle. They say ignorance is bliss.

There are always constraints...

If I'm staying in the lower 48. 7MM Remington Mag. I think equally as available as 30-06 ammo, and better long range ballistics for wide-open western uses. However as one5shot said I wouldn't be disappointed with a 30-06 either.

If you are going to add in Alaska, or Africa, and are willing to exclude varmints... 375 H&H

The 375 if handloaded with 220's @ 2200 fps make a fine medium game rifle, and with 300gr solids, I don't feel undergunned for even the big 5 in Africa.

The 375 also has an interesting relationship between the common 220-300gr loads in that they all shoot to about the same POI at reasonable hunting distances. So you can change ammo without having to change your zero.