Concealed Carry at Public Events

[Dreghorn]

I have a question about carrying concealed at public events where alcohol is served. I know Va. law restricts me from carrying concealed inside an establishment that serves alcohol, but not sure what the law is when attending an outside public event either sponsored by the city, state, or private organization where alcohol is served. Anyone have any insight on this?

[OakRidgeStars]

I have carried both open and concealed at events where vendors are serving alcohol. I've also CC'd at sporting events where alcohol was served. There is a difference between that and carrying inside an restaurant, but I can't give you any specific law to reference.

[Riana]

I wonder on this myself, as I would like to be able to carry concealed at the Herndon Festival next year. I am representing an organization, and since not everyone in my group would necessarily approve of my actions, I don't want to cause a stir when I go into the ABC area by going to OC (in exchange for our booth space, we clean the tables, so I can't just avoid the area).

[zephyp]

I've tried to pull all the relevant sections from the VA Code on this and have highlighted some key words. Btw, VA code for CC doesnt specify inside or outside the place where alcohol is served and the definition stipulates real estate which also means outside. Anyway, please read below and note it qualifies restaurant as a place where meals are regularly sold. I would also read "club" definition as this one may fit for restricted CC - but the definition is also qualified. Having said all that, I would fire off an e-mail to VCDL for an interpretation since the code is slightly convoluted. The rule I follow is when in doubt do the VA tuck.

Here's an address for Jackie Blundell. She's good to deal with and will get your question to the right person for a prompt answer: jacque.blundell.vcdl@verizon.net
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Sec 18.2-308.J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board

§ 4.1-100. Definitions.
"Place or premises" means the real estate, together with any buildings or other improvements thereon, designated in the application for a license as the place at which the manufacture, bottling, distribution, use or sale of alcoholic beverages shall be performed, except that portion of any such building or other improvement actually and exclusively used as a private residence.
"Restaurant" means, for a beer, or wine and beer license or a limited mixed beverage restaurant license, any establishment provided with special space and accommodation, where, in consideration of payment, meals or other foods prepared on the premises are regularly sold.
"Restaurant" means, for a mixed beverage license other than a limited mixed beverage restaurant license, an established place of business (i) where meals with substantial entrees are regularly sold and (ii) which has adequate facilities and sufficient employees for cooking, preparing, and serving such meals for consumption at tables in dining areas on the premises, and includes establishments specializing in full course meals with a single substantial entree.
"Club" means any private nonprofit corporation or association which is the owner, lessee, or occupant of an establishment operated solely for a national, social, patriotic, political, athletic, or other like purpose, but not for pecuniary gain, the advantages of which belong to all of the members. It also means the establishment so operated.

[ProShooter]

I do a class on these laws. I always tell people that they really need to understand their rights and responsibilities. Too many folks have heard this law or that law and have bad info.

[Dreghorn]

I appreciate everyone's insight, like Riana, I was wondering about entering the roped/fenced off ABC areas at festivals, as they do not meet the definitions of "Restaurant" or "Club" as defined by Sec. 4.1-100. My take on it is it's about as clear as mud, but isn't that the way with most of our laws. My own personal opinion was that it's OK but was looking for others insight as I am far from being a Lawyer.

I will e-mail Ms. Blundell and see what VCDL take on it is, as Zephyp suggested.

[zephyp]

I appreciate everyone's insight, like Riana, I was wondering about entering the roped/fenced off ABC areas at festivals, as they do not meet the definitions of "Restaurant" or "Club" as defined by Sec. 4.1-100. My take on it is it's about as clear as mud, but isn't that the way with most of our laws. My own personal opinion was that it's OK but was looking for others insight as I am far from being a Lawyer.

I will e-mail Ms. Blundell and see what VCDL take on it is, as Zephyp suggested.

Please let us know what VCDL has to say.

[Riana]

I appreciate everyone's insight, like Riana, I was wondering about entering the roped/fenced off ABC areas at festivals, as they do not meet the definitions of "Restaurant" or "Club" as defined by Sec. 4.1-100. My take on it is it's about as clear as mud, but isn't that the way with most of our laws. My own personal opinion was that it's OK but was looking for others insight as I am far from being a Lawyer.

I will e-mail Ms. Blundell and see what VCDL take on it is, as Zephyp suggested.

Please let us know what VCDL has to say.

Definitely, please do let us know.

I had always assumed (yes, I know what they say about assuming ) that since several of the vendors in the ABC areas are actually area restaurants (just set up in a wagon away from their normal building) that the ABC license for the brick-n-mortar conveyed to the portable unit.

Maybe if I get an hour where I can wander the festival on my own, I'll OC in there... that's sure to cause a hub-bub amongst the Herndon officers...

[Dreghorn]

OK, the answer from VCDL Is...

Quoting Phillip Van Cleave (with his permission)
"I am not an attorney, but it is my understanding that such areas are OK for CC as they are not considered the premises of a restaurant or club, but are part of a special event."

That said I will continue to CC at such events.

[zephyp]

Thanks, GrayGhost!!! I would have said otherwise but do trust what VCDL has to say.