Your right to use deadly force

[reid9439]

Having a new CWP, I have a question pertaining to the use of lethal force in Virginia. Here is the scenerio:

I am in a convenience store when an armed robber threatens the store clerk. I know what my moral obligation is, but how does the law view this incident if I have to use lethal force to protect the clerk and/or myself.

The best information I have found so far is on the attached page. The only problem is, that it is over 2 years old. Is this basically still correct or has anything changed in the law since then?

http://thespeakoutforum.com/forum_view. ... MID=102224

[allingeneral]

I would say that the forum post to which you linked is still true. Essentially, it boils down to this in self defense and defense of others:

Deadly force is only allowed in a situation in which your life (or the life of another) is threatened or you fear grave harm will come to you (or another).

To quote the link:

THE COURT INSTRUCTS THE JURY THAT the amount of force used in self-defense must be reasonable in relation to the harm threatened, and that the defendant is not allowed to use deadly force in self-defense unless he reasonably feared, under the circumstances as they appeared to him, that he was in danger of being killed or that he was in danger of great bodily harm.

In your scenario, you have many things to consider - not just the threat to the store clerk. You must consider innocent lives around you who may be struck if you fire your weapon - do you have a clear shot on the perpetrator, or is there a possibility that you will hit the clerk? Is the clerk's life TRULY in danger?

Every situation is different and must be viewed in its entirety. I really hope not to never be engaged in such a situation.

[VBshooter]

Here in VA we have to have an actual threat before we can use deadly force, In the store example if the BG is threatening the clerk and possibly others IMHO you have the right to use Deadly Force,,but as Rick said here in VA we have to analyze the damn situation to tears to be sure we are right, That sucks ,but we didn;t write the law.. The law we have is called :Stand Your Ground" but it is very misleading; If you have no other option but to use Deadly Force it is justified,,If you can escape, or otherwise avoid the encounter you have to take that route,, If you ever have to use deadly force,and I hope you never do, remember that the burden of proof is on you in this state,, You will have to prove that you acted in accordance with the law to a judge and jury,, This year a Castle Doctrine bill should be set forth in the General Assembly and hopefully will pass this time. Last time it was killed in committee before it hit the Senate floor for the vote,. Contact your state reps and ask them to strongly support it when it is proposed.

[zephyp]

Rick and Spence are spot on here. For VA you will find advice (for the situation you describe) ranging from do nothing up to and including shoot him. Unfortunately the law for VA is murky. In all cases - you - have the burden of proof to show that you were in imminent mortal danger. In a case like this even if you shoot the guy and dont hit any one else and he doesnt shoot anybody - you could either be hailed as a hero or a villain. It depends on the prosecuting attorney and how he/she wants to proceed. I recommend you get the VA Gun Owners Guide 7th edition (link below). It describes several scenarios and offers some very thought provoking advice. Also, VA does not issue a CWP - VA only issues a CHP. Big difference.

http://www.amazon.com/Virginia-Gun-Owne ... 729&sr=8-1

[reid9439]

DITTO. "I really hope not to never be engaged in such a situation."

[zephyp]

DITTO. "I really hope not to never be engaged in such a situation."

Me neither, but carrying a gun wisely (and knowing how and when to use it) is akin to car insurance. If you have it and really need it you're glad you did - otherwise, you or loved ones could be screwed or worse.

[reid9439]

Zephyp, you are right about the difference between a CWP and a CHP. I have a CHP. Being new to the jargon used on this forum, I wish someone would right up a glossary of abbreviations. Some of the jargon is like reading Greek. No disrespect to any Greeks out there.

[allingeneral]

A list of abbreviations like this one?

http://vagunforum.net/rules-and-regs/co ... -t448.html

[LFS]

Rick and Spence are spot on here. For VA you will find advice (for the situation you describe) ranging from do nothing up to and including shoot him. Unfortunately the law for VA is murky. In all cases - you - have the burden of proof to show that you were in imminent mortal danger. In a case like this even if you shoot the guy and dont hit any one else and he doesnt shoot anybody - you could either be hailed as a hero or a villain. It depends on the prosecuting attorney and how he/she wants to proceed. I recommend you get the VA Gun Owners Guide 7th edition (link below). It describes several scenarios and offers some very thought provoking advice. Also, VA does not issue a CWP - VA only issues a CHP. Big difference.

http://www.amazon.com/Virginia-Gun-Owne ... 729&sr=8-1

I'm an avid Amazon consumer, but you'll be disappointed if you try to order this book there. I had it on order for 3 months with Amazon before they finally cancelled it because they said they couldn't find the book. I ordered it from VCDL (http://www.vcdl.org/static/store.html) and had it in 2 days.

[zephyp]

Zephyp, you are right about the difference between a CWP and a CHP. I have a CHP. Being new to the jargon used on this forum, I wish someone would right up a glossary of abbreviations. Some of the jargon is like reading Greek. No disrespect to any Greeks out there.

My pleasure. We could make a new one from this:

FRUG - failure reading and understanding Greek...

[zephyp]

Rick and Spence are spot on here. For VA you will find advice (for the situation you describe) ranging from do nothing up to and including shoot him. Unfortunately the law for VA is murky. In all cases - you - have the burden of proof to show that you were in imminent mortal danger. In a case like this even if you shoot the guy and dont hit any one else and he doesnt shoot anybody - you could either be hailed as a hero or a villain. It depends on the prosecuting attorney and how he/she wants to proceed. I recommend you get the VA Gun Owners Guide 7th edition (link below). It describes several scenarios and offers some very thought provoking advice. Also, VA does not issue a CWP - VA only issues a CHP. Big difference.

http://www.amazon.com/Virginia-Gun-Owne ... 729&sr=8-1

I'm an avid Amazon consumer, but you'll be disappointed if you try to order this book there. I had it on order for 3 months with Amazon before they finally cancelled it because they said they couldn't find the book. I ordered it from VCDL (http://www.vcdl.org/static/store.html) and had it in 2 days.

Hmmm. I just ordered a copy of the 7th edition from Amazon couple of weeks ago and had it in shortly thereafter. If you use the link above it says in stock. You might have tried to order an older version and none are stocked by Amazon. You have to get them from the other buying options.

[rlnthndr]

You may also read the PDF from the VCDL here for some cases and insight.

[SgtBill]

I think the best possible thing you can do is be able to articulate to a jury the ammount of fear you had or the ammount of fear that you had for anothers life at the time that you capped the perp. And you also can not get rattled by some butthole prosecuter that want's to make an example of you and a name for themselfs in front of 12 people with most likely anti gun people mixed in. I have been in that situation and I am still around and still carry a weapon in all of the states that I go to.
Bill

[VBshooter]

Very good advice Bill...Well worth remembering