CCW and BYOB Drinking in Restaurant

[tommy610]

Referring to this:

§18.2-308 (J.3.): J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer.

it appears there is nothing to prohibit CCW while partaking in alcoholic beverages in a restaurant that does not have a liquor license, and you BYOB. Am I right?

[meak99]

1. IANAL
2. Sure, what you're saying may be true.
3. Why?

[allingeneral]

1. IANAL

Me either.

2. Sure, what you're saying may be true.

I think so, too.

3. Why?

Why not?

[DryBones]

yeah, because guns and alcohol go so good together.....NOT

[dorminWS]

I pretty certain BYOB/"brownbagging" is not legal in any restaurant in Virginia. You have to have a license from the Va ABC folks to serve alcohol.

[meak99]

Why not? What happens when someone makes the fact you're carrying (shouldn't happen, but could) and you're drinking? Do you think a cop is going to read into the law, do some thinking on it, then decide whether to charge you under §18.2-308 (J.3.), or just go ahead and charge you? The hassel alone, even if completely legal, is not worth it in my opinion. I'll wait til I get home to drink my beer.

[allingeneral]

Why not? What happens when someone makes the fact you're carrying (shouldn't happen, but could) and you're drinking? Do you think a cop is going to read into the law, do some thinking on it, then decide whether to charge you under §18.2-308 (J.3.), or just go ahead and charge you? The hassel alone, even if completely legal, is not worth it in my opinion. I'll wait til I get home to drink my beer.

I agree. Just wanted to help the discussion get going

[FiremanBob]

Even if it is legal, anyone who does it fails the IQ test.

[tommy610]

Doesn't VA have BYOB? PA has quite a few.

Anyway, thanks for the information. Apparently, no one knows of anywhere where it states this is illegal. That's what I wanted to know.

But it does seem to me that this is one area where cops could cross the line, because they either don't know the law, or would rather enforce their opinion rather than the law.

[allingeneral]

Pennsylvania is the only place I've ever been to (or heard of for that matter) that allows BYOB in a public establishment.

[DryBones]

Still trying to figure out the why behind this question. Is it so important to have a drink while CCW??? I don't get it.

[tommy610]

Still trying to figure out the why behind this question. Is it so important to have a drink while CCW??? I don't get it.

I asked because I was amazed that the statute specifically stated that it applied to places that have a liquor license. That seemed very strange to me. It was actually making the applicability more restrictive, and wasn't applying to the possibility of someone doing BYOB and getting drunk while carrying. I would have thought they would have made it simple and said you can't consume alcohol in public while CCW. Why all the verbiage about liquor license?

[Mindflayer]

Lawyers.

[meak99]

Isn't there separate statute for being intoxicated while carrying, whether or not it's in a licensed establishment? Hmmmm....

[meak99]

J1. Any person permitted to carry a concealed handgun, who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such handgun in a public place, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-308

[gunderwood]

J1. Any person permitted to carry a concealed handgun, who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such handgun in a public place, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-308

Only applies to a concealed handgun. While it may not be wise, you can legally OC and be under the influence of alcohol.


As for the OP, I did not think BYOB was legal in VA. To consume alcohol on a businesses premise, they must have a license. The statue effectively prohibits all CC and drinking in a public place with the only possible wiggle room of what under the influence actually means. I don't know what the case law is, but I'd be curious to know what they consider "under the influence." A BAC >= 0.08 like driving?

[meak99]

I know - that's what this thread is about... concealing.

[ProShooter]

I don't know what the case law is, but I'd be curious to know what they consider "under the influence." A BAC >= 0.08 like driving?

Nope...just the officer's perception that you are under the influence.

[gunderwood]

I don't know what the case law is, but I'd be curious to know what they consider "under the influence." A BAC >= 0.08 like driving?

Nope...just the officer's perception that you are under the influence.

What is that from? Case law?

Technically, I could eat/drink a fermented food, which will contain alcohol, but isn't regulated because it's so little...I still could be considered "under the influence." I suspect that practically you're correct though.

[ProShooter]

I don't know what the case law is, but I'd be curious to know what they consider "under the influence." A BAC >= 0.08 like driving?

Nope...just the officer's perception that you are under the influence.

What is that from? Case law?

Technically, I could eat/drink a fermented food, which will contain alcohol, but isn't regulated because it's so little...I still could be considered "under the influence." I suspect that practically you're correct though.

Its from the fact that this section of law does not mention .08 specifically.

Its like this one...

§ 18.2-388. Profane swearing and intoxication in public; penalty; transportation of public inebriates to detoxification center.

If any person profanely curses or swears or is intoxicated in public, whether such intoxication results from alcohol, narcotic drug or other intoxicant or drug of whatever nature, he shall be deemed guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. In any area in which there is located a court-approved detoxification center a law-enforcement officer may authorize the transportation, by police or otherwise, of public inebriates to such detoxification center in lieu of arrest; however, no person shall be involuntarily detained in such center.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-237; 1960, c. 358; 1964, c. 434; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1979, c. 654; 1982, c. 666; 1983, c. 187; 1990, c. 965.)

The State Police use that code for drunk in public charges. I never used it. I always used the local county ordinance for DIP so that the county gets the fine money. That's what we were taught. Its based upon the officer's perception (although many times we did an alco-sensor test just to be sure that it wasn't a medical issue.)

The criteria is basically:
Does the person have an odor of an alcoholic beverage about their person?
Do they have slurred speech?
Are they unsteady on their feet?
Eyes glazed/glassy appearance?
Unable to form complete sentences or answer simple questions like name, DOB, today's date, etc.