Real Life Incident - What would you do?

[Illbananas]

So this literally happened a half hour ago. I am driving and see a guy in his pick up truck flailing his arms and flicking me off. I'm in a very small car (not that it matters) and have no idea why this guy is pissed. I flick him off back. He's starts yelling pull over, pull over. I ignore him and keep driving.

He gets behind me and starts tailing me. I get stopped at a light and get in the left turn lane. He pulls up behind me, gets out of his car and starts knocking on my window, trying to open my door. I have an XDS 45 on a magnetic mount on my center counsel, loaded with an extra magazine. After he starts banging on my glass I run the red light, go straight, almost get hit by a car, but manage to escape the situation.

I don't know if I handled the situation correctly, given I could have caused an accident by running the red. Without me going into more detail on my thoughts, what would you have done in this same scenario?

[ShotgunBlast]

I would have started by not flicking him off.

Welcome to the forum.

[Illbananas]

Appreciate the welcome.

Sorry I'm not an angel.

[skeeterss0]

I have to be honest, I would have drawn and let the guy see it. Anyone approach you in a crazy manner like that you have to be ready for anything.

[dorminWS]

Good advice. Never a good idea to return hostile gestures to other drivers. Best to ignore them.

I thought for a minute you might have picked up your cell phone when the guy was pecking on your window and called 911 while smiling and mouthing "PO-LICE". But that may have put the dude the rest of the way over the edge; and by the time the PO-LICE got there, whatever was going to happen would have happened..

[dorminWS]

I have to be honest, I would have drawn and let the guy see it. Anyone approach you in a crazy manner like that you have to be ready for anything.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Tempting, BUT
(1) You have to be prepared to use it if you draw it. What if the OTHER guy's packing?
(2) There is always the possibility that you might get charged with brandishing.

[SHMIV]

Hmm. Returning a finger seems normal to me.

Not having been there, hard to say what I would have done.

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[thekinetic]

I would cracked the window slightly to tell him to return to his vehicle and stop acting like a child. I would have deffinatly not given him the satisfaction of seeing me sweat.

Ok that's not true, I have a bit of a temper and would have busted him the face with the door got out and told him to get the F*** away from my car before I F***ing beat the ugly off him.

[TallEd]

I would have pulled my ABS fuse so I could spin the car arouns and drive in reverse to stay infornt of him... then shoot my windshield a few times to break it enough so I could kick it out the rest of the way... then once I had a clear view/shot... Oh... wait a minute... you said "real life"

[Palladin]

Sounds like Rick to me - he was probably pissed you didn't have your VGOF sticker yet...

[Kreutz]

I'd apologize for giving in to momentary stupidity and participating in road rage, an emotion that is not worth the slightest risk of getting shot or even shooting someone else over.

[Stratojaxter]

I'd love to say I just wouldn't flip the guy off, but I, like most of us who are honest with ourselves, have been known to occasionally act before my brain has had time to fully engage. Now, sitting here safely at my desk, with no angry people banging on my window, I'd like to think I would handle it like Kreutz. I'd rather be the bigger man and apologize than escalate the issue, forcing me to do something I'd regret. If the guy still persisted, I'd take the first opportunity to SAFELY and calmly drive off, and if followed call 911 to report the idiot. My last resort would be to pull the weapon and hope the guy was smart enough to take the hint without having to fire. It would suck for something so stupid to result in the idiots death, and my legal hassle.

[newdovo]

I don't know if I handled the situation correctly, given I could have caused an accident by running the red.

I think that you did the right thing by leaving the situation. Yeah, running the red light was risky and you could've caused an accident. But... everyone did get to go home in this particular situation. There's no dishonor in avoiding or exiting from an escalating situation with a jerk or crazy person.

[SHMIV]

These days, most of my driving is done in about 80 feet of 13.5 foot tall truck, which is equipped with a very loud airhorn and a scary sounding dog. Folks aren't exactly beating on my windows, these days. Lotsa folks get to hear what my horn sounds like, though.

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[gunderwood]

So this literally happened a half hour ago. I am driving and see a guy in his pick up truck flailing his arms and flicking me off. I'm in a very small car (not that it matters) and have no idea why this guy is pissed. I flick him off back. He's starts yelling pull over, pull over. I ignore him and keep driving.

He gets behind me and starts tailing me. I get stopped at a light and get in the left turn lane. He pulls up behind me, gets out of his car and starts knocking on my window, trying to open my door. I have an XDS 45 on a magnetic mount on my center counsel, loaded with an extra magazine. After he starts banging on my glass I run the red light, go straight, almost get hit by a car, but manage to escape the situation.

I don't know if I handled the situation correctly, given I could have caused an accident by running the red. Without me going into more detail on my thoughts, what would you have done in this same scenario?

Couple of points.

1. You reasonably lost your ability to lawfully use SD when you flicked him off. At that point you definitely escalated a non-deadly situation and thus became part of the problem. In such situations, VA law now requires you to retreat and will only justify SD if AOI/fear of life/limb is met AND you can no longer retreat. Use of your handgun in that situation would likely get you a attempted/murder charge. Displaying your firearm to intimidate someone, even if they are acting badly, will almost always get you a brandishing charge. The firearm never gets drawn until you intend to shoot (because AOI/fear) are met.

VA law concerning SD is very liberal and generally gives all the assumptions to the intended victim. However, if you are part of the problem, you kiss all that legal protection good by. Don't be part of the problem and you'll also have less incidents to worry about in the first place.

2. Once he was following you, you should've not stopped even at the light if possible (I wouldn't have turned there). I wouldn't go home, I would keep driving and avoiding stops until he gave up. Get in the right hand lane, drive with the slow traffic and otherwise make it not worthwhile to continuing following you.

3. Running the red light put others are risk just so you could feel better by flipping him off. If you caused an accident, you're liable for that. If you killed someone, expect a manslaughter charge. You may have been being followed, but you helped create the problem. The law won't afford you any special protection.


None of us are angels, but if you can expect to bear the consequences when we're part of the problem. Certainly the other driver wasn't innocent either, but by escalating the situation (possibly inciting it with your driving, but you don't know) you loose your ability to stand your ground.

[Mindflayer]

If you don't know why someone is going crazy, ignore them. I know when someone executes a dangerous maneuver with their 2 ton weapon, it's can be hard not to respond, but when you carry a firearm, you have to do what you can. It's something I work on a lot.

I find a quick two tap on the horn, like, "Hi, there!", and a wave is a better response. Angry people will think you're an idiot and leave you alone, and people that let their temper get a hold of them will calm down. Sometimes.

Now, as soon as he got out of his car and walked up to you, I would have been on the phone to the police. Trying to get into your car is enough for the police to have arrested him.

TL;DR, avoid confrontation and get away first.

[MNMGoneShooting]

Never ever flip off while armed. Bad ju ju....

[Illbananas]

Thanks for the responses all. I am not friends with anybody else who carries, so it's great to be able to have a outlet to discuss issues like this. As to the reason he flicked me off and got mad I don't know. My best guess was because I was driving too slow. I had just pulled out of a Chik-Fila and had coffee almost spill on me. Now I didn't know about the laws that were brought up about you lose your right to lose deadly force as soon as you flick somebody off, but that's part of the reason I posted. Now I know and won't flick people off. But I'm not thinking when I flick somebody off, "this guy might chase me down and I might have to use my .45"...that's the last thing on my mind.

So I guess before the knowledge I have now, I'm the type of guy that if you flick me off, I flick you off back. I don't know what I would have told you before this scenario, but given what happened, evidently that's the type of guy I am. Granted, hind site you all are right, I should have not flicked him off and nor would have I of if I knew the situation that would have prevailed. But, 99% of people you flick off will not chase you down and knock on your window. So I guess you could say "I flicked off the wrong guy." But then again, maybe not 99%, but the majority of people don't have a loaded 45 that they can easily access in their car, so you could say "He picked the wrong guy to knock on their window."

Pretty much everything that was brought up by you guys, went through my mind at some point during this ordeal. As soon as an attempt was made to open the door, that immediately met my check box for "Reasonable fear to bodily harm or your life," Somebody's not going to try to open your door unless they're trying to beat the poop out of you. What if it was unlocked, which it is a lot of times? For a second I almost thought of pulling it on him, then the "brandishing" a fire arm thought went through my mind. And my training kicked in, "don't pull out a gun unless your going to use it." I mean, I could have pulled it out and he could have ran back to his truck and got his shotgun and followed me till one of us was done or a pulled a pistol of his own out and fire quickly. So I wasn't going to pull it out unless I was ready to use it and I definitely wasn't ready to shoot this guy over being dumb ass, road raging redneck (no offense to any rednecks!)

Now if he did break the window or I didn't have my door locked and he opened it and grabbed me, my first reaction would be to grab my XDS and squeeze till it's empty. Even though I did flick him off, seems like I made every attempt to flee and he was adamant on causing me bodily arm. However, that didn't happen and I am SUPER SUPER GLAD it didn't happen. I think I handled the situation correctly. I went to the left turn at that light because I was literally less than a half mile from my house. My house was straight the left turn was away from my house. I decided it wouldn't be the best idea to drive home while being followed. The only reason I was able to get away is because I ran the red and he had to walk back to his truck, then after that the red light traffic prevented him from following me. Seeing this guys face and how angry he was, there's no doubt in my mind he would have followed me until we had a confrontation.

Then I think again and maybe it would have been a good idea to go back home because I had a loaded M4 on my night stand. Even if he did follow me and had a weapon, I would have played my odds with the M4 and three loaded magazine next to it. You always think you'll never run into a situation where you'd need your AR and pistol, but they can happen on your way to get Chik-Fila for breakfast on any God given morning. The person who commented on driving and not returning home or stopping at the light….props…that sounded like a great idea and is what I would do if this ever happened again. All and all glad nothing happened and we both walked away from the incident unharmed.

[Tweaker]

I would cracked the window slightly to tell him to return to his vehicle and stop acting like a child. I would have deffinatly not given him the satisfaction of seeing me sweat.

Ok that's not true, I have a bit of a temper and would have busted him the face with the door got out and told him to get the F*** away from my car before I F***ing beat the ugly off him.

Your advice is consistently horrid.

Not sure if serious.

[wally626]

The VA standards are that in cases of mutual combat the standard for justified use of force is much higher than if you are an innocent. I am not sure just giving him the finger back would qualify as mutual combat, but when carrying it is wise to not get argumentative. Pulling a gun in that situation is very borderline, and getting out of Dodge at that point was a good choice, although just calling the cops may have worked as well. Hard to tell without knowing how pissed off the guy was and how far he was willing to take it. My one encounter with a lunatic driver, I just drove off and thankfully they did not follow, did not have to run a light to do it.

One important point, if you do end up brandishing a weapon, the next step, if you do not have to fire, it is to call the police and report the incident and tell them why you thought you had to defend yourself. It has happen before that persons will call the police and report you for brandishing. You want to be first.