Brandishing... a pepper spray?

[VACoastie]

Yeah I had to pull out my old BTM guide to get the real definition, for "legal" purposes That's what we use for definition. Even if you're using a less than lethal force, it could still be deadly force by that definition. It's why you can't go all willy nilly with pressure points because if you jack up their nerves for being too crazy on it when it's not needed.

Actually for us, deadly force can be utilizing a chair and knocking them out. Kinda puts inanimate objects in a different light when you keep that at the back of your head.

But then again, this is just Coast Guard regs. When it comes to VA law in specific (non-maritime) there could be some differences. If it was me in the OP's situation though I would have tried my best to get that OC from her hands for threatening me when there was no cause for confrontation.

My .02 cents for you OP is to make a police report about it and have it on file. That way if it comes up again and she uses it OR you feel threatened and take it away from her you have that to go by (previous threatening gestures for a small misunderstanding). Don't forget your recorder either! That stinks that you didn't have it in the moment.

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[kjkimx]

The management office gave me the contact information for the courtesy community patrol officer, so I will be letting him know about the incident.
My initial belief was that since I didn't have any concrete evidence (her word vs mine) reporting it to the police wouldn't have done anything.
As you all suggest, I will also be documenting/recording all my future encounters.

I learned my lesson not to be lazy, even though this incident was "minor."
What if I'd encountered an armed robber, and I was too lazy to have my firearm on me?

I don't like to be in conflicts - I keep good relations with all other neighbors and had never had a problem like this my entire life.
However, as much as I'd like to avoid encountering this woman again, I feel that I shouldn't have to divert from my normal walk route.
Besides, my dog really likes to take care of her business in that area

Thank you all for your great advice!

[VACoastie]

Good stance to take. Just because one person isn't happy doesn't mean you should change just for the . Those are the folks who need to learn we are a society of people and need to learn to respect others.

'Murica!

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[ProShooter]

.......... My training,

I'd love to know where the CG is getting that stuff from.

[VACoastie]

Well, I'd invite you to keep your eye open while receiving a straight stream from 2 feet away ProShooter and we'll record the results from 10 sessions lol. To be honest I don't know where they get it from but I don't want to be the guy to do it and then implode someone's eye. Though, they'd be hella compliant at that point. 10% OC in an open wound? PHEW! My opinion? It probably happened to ONE person like 15 years ago so they want to CYA.

Our BTM school is located at FLETC in Charleston, S.C. Maybe they know where that info comes from. I'll see if a pub references something when I'm back in shop on Monday.

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[meadmkr]

Start walking with a video camera and turn it on if you see her or the dog. I picked up pepper spray for the gals in my wife's craft group as most of them walk the same trails with their dogs but thankfully none has had to use it (yet). One of the women had several interactions with an owner/walking with two agressive Dobermans offleash and not under control that had cornered more than one dog. When she saw our friend was videotaping it she seemed to get the hint and moved off to other parts of the local trails to walk. Our friend forwarded the video to animal control but don't know what the outcome was.

[spatcher]

Yeah I had to pull out my old BTM guide to get the real definition, for "legal" purposes That's what we use for definition. Even if you're using a less than lethal force, it could still be deadly force by that definition. It's why you can't go all willy nilly with pressure points because if you jack up their nerves for being too crazy on it when it's not needed.

Actually for us, deadly force can be utilizing a chair and knocking them out. Kinda puts inanimate objects in a different light when you keep that at the back of your head.

But then again, this is just Coast Guard regs. When it comes to VA law in specific (non-maritime) there could be some differences. If it was me in the OP's situation though I would have tried my best to get that OC from her hands for threatening me when there was no cause for confrontation.

My .02 cents for you OP is to make a police report about it and have it on file. That way if it comes up again and she uses it OR you feel threatened and take it away from her you have that to go by (previous threatening gestures for a small misunderstanding). Don't forget your recorder either! That stinks that you didn't have it in the moment.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Good God...dont tell Obama about the chair! We'll have nothing to sit on!

[Kreutz]

@Kreutz,
Yes that is an option but I'm not just going to pull out my gun and kill a dog when it's running back and forth on my fence line. Besides I've got a big German Shepard. He is well trained and I let him in the front yard as he won't leave unless I tell him it's ok. One of the pits took him off guard as he is friendly to dogs. It only happened once. Now I have to watch my dog as he has chased the pits back to their yard and told them who's boss. Nothing like seeing one of them pits whimper and whine all the way back home.

Anyway I work for people that would want an awful lot of paper work if they see a police report on me so I've got to be extra careful that if I do shoot one of them it's because someone is about to get hurt bad by them. Besides I'm not just going to shot an animal just because I don't like them. I don't think you will either and yes I totally understand your thought.

I wasn't advocating shooting them for fun or anything, but your first post said:

I've got a similar problem with person in my neighborhood that breeds pit bulls. He is raising them to be aggressive and they have chased my daughters and mother in law in my own yard.

If the animals were actually chasing your family members on your property you'd be well within your rights to stop that threat. Because in the case you first described, yes, I would shoot them.

if they're stopping at the fence line and pose no immediate threat I would not shoot them obviously.

[VACoastie]

To get back to the question: I looked through pubs and refs and everything is stating no closer than 4 ft, no further than 12 feet. Any closer than 4 feet will cause damage to the eyes due to ballistic needle effect instead of pin needle effect or whatever term I had used earlier. This brings us back to what deadly force is defined as.

Either way, It's bad ****. I don't want it in my face or eyes again, much less with someone standing almost arms length from my eyes about to spray me. If you're curious what it feels like > take some store bought pepper spray, shake it up, spray it on a Q-Tip, then rub it into the corner of your eye. Don't have contacts in. Then, think of it being 5-10 times as worse because a LEO will have more potent form and he/she will be spraying it over your entire face more than likely. When I took mine, the effects of your eyes boiling out of my head lasted for about 15-20 minutes after being hit and fighting off an "attacker" then dunking my head in water. A fan is your best friend. It's a great lesson learned in the subject, you don't really want to just use it on someone "just 'cause they scare you." It's an important tool of self-defense that deserves the respect it should be given. To me, that of a gun. Don't point it where you don't want it sprayed and don't bring it on target unless you intend to use it.