Mosin nagant

[mamabearCali]

Saw it...on it!

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[gunderwood]

ya, all the mosins I can find have gone up to the $300 dollar mark.

I'd rather spend the $300 on a mauser.

I've got a few mosins, and like it, but for the same money I think the mauser is simply a beter gun.

+1

I currently don't own either, but the Mauser is definitely the better rifle.

[Purdune]

I currently don't own either, but the Mauser is definitely the better rifle.

Hum, interesting statement.

[gunderwood]

I currently don't own either, but the Mauser is definitely the better rifle.

Hum, interesting statement.

Just because I don't currently own either to the two rifles doesn't mean I haven't/haven't used and examined them. Also, variants of the Mauser action are still made today by many manufacturers (e.g. CZ, Remington http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and ... untry.aspx) and I do own those kinds of rifles. That should tell you something about the basic design when it's still made. It's kind of like the 1911, the basic design is slightly archaic and has seen many variations, but is still a solid platform when built well. Strictly speaking the Mauser 98 action could be considered the grandfather of nearly every front locking-lug bolt action rifle made today.

[Purdune]

Now don't get all hot under the collar. It's just that you state that you don't own either then you state the obvious. Well at least you state the obvious on paper. You leave me to question whether you have the authority to say one is a better rifle than the other.

For starters lets talk price. The Mosin, retail, sells for $140 plus a lot of elbow grease cleaning cosmoline! Now is the better rifle just a simple matter of the round it fires or how tight a group at 400 yards? No, I think not. For one thing if you can't afford a rifle than it's pretty much worthless. So yes cost does take into account.

Lets then move to history. I'm of German ancestry but my wife is of Russian. Next I was very much a part of the Cold War. Can't think of anywhere I lived that wasn't on their target list. So I'm 50/50 on which has more history for me. That and the US used a copy of a Mauser.

Finally lets go back to that elbow grease. I put some long hours on forums and Youtube researching how to clean cosmoline. I took the finish off my 30 30. I sanded and lovingly put on coat after coat of true oil. I then moved to my Mosin and carefully refurbished it. I took care to take care of all the markings. To make it a usable rifle but keep it's own personal history. I developed a fondness for the rifle I bought for $130. A fondnesses that will not allow me to trade it for a Mauser of twice the value. Heck I'd be hard pressed to trade this rifle for an AR worth 20 times it's value. Yeah I know but in the short time it's been in my ownership it's grown to a great value to me.

So when I say your statement is "interesting", I don't mean that you don't know what each can do nor it's monetary value. Just that you may not be taking everything into consideration.

Oh and the Mosin may not be produced today but why do you need to when there are untold numbers in crates? That doesn't mean it's a relic. They are still in use today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdGNW_4CTpk

[sboyajian]

I had the "Very Good" condition Mosin on backorder with Buds. When I saw they had the new batch in "Excellent" quality I called them up and they made the switch. I paid the $18 difference and it should be shipping out today.

My understanding is this one does come with the bayonet, however if you want the extra's it's luck of the draw.

[gunderwood]

Now don't get all hot under the collar. It's just that you state that you don't own either then you state the obvious. Well at least you state the obvious on paper. You leave me to question whether you have the authority to say one is a better rifle than the other.

For starters lets talk price. The Mosin, retail, sells for $140 plus a lot of elbow grease cleaning cosmoline! Now is the better rifle just a simple matter of the round it fires or how tight a group at 400 yards? No, I think not. For one thing if you can't afford a rifle than it's pretty much worthless. So yes cost does take into account.

Lets then move to history. I'm of German ancestry but my wife is of Russian. Next I was very much a part of the Cold War. Can't think of anywhere I lived that wasn't on their target list. So I'm 50/50 on which has more history for me. That and the US used a copy of a Mauser.

Finally lets go back to that elbow grease. I put some long hours on forums and Youtube researching how to clean cosmoline. I took the finish off my 30 30. I sanded and lovingly put on coat after coat of true oil. I then moved to my Mosin and carefully refurbished it. I took care to take care of all the markings. To make it a usable rifle but keep it's own personal history. I developed a fondness for the rifle I bought for $130. A fondnesses that will not allow me to trade it for a Mauser of twice the value. Heck I'd be hard pressed to trade this rifle for an AR worth 20 times it's value. Yeah I know but in the short time it's been in my ownership it's grown to a great value to me.

So when I say your statement is "interesting", I don't mean that you don't know what each can do nor it's monetary value. Just that you may not be taking everything into consideration.

Oh and the Mosin may not be produced today but why do you need to when there are untold numbers in crates? That doesn't mean it's a relic. They are still in use today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdGNW_4CTpk

I'm sorry I personally offended you when stating that what appears to be a vital component of your identity is inferior to another...

FYI, the fact that even today people pay big money, 10x through 100x what you paid for your Mosin, for new manufactured Masuer actioned or derived actions in their rifles should tell you something. You won't see a multi-thousand dollar, custom African game rifle on a Mosin styled action. You see Mausers all the time, so clearly there is something the market deems superior to other alternatives. Besides, come on, German vs. Russian manufacturing quality is a no brainer.

That aside, that doesn't mean the Mosin is useless. If you like it, good for you...it's a cool piece of history.

[GeneFrenkle]

>> German vs. Russian manufacturing quality is a no brainer.

Read more: http://vagunforum.net/general-discussio ... z2KoFB3iMU

Hey now, gunderwood, Saigas have tolerances ... I think. Do piads count?

[gunderwood]

>> German vs. Russian manufacturing quality is a no brainer.

Read more: http://vagunforum.net/general-discussio ... z2KoFB3iMU

Hey now, gunderwood, Saigas have tolerances ... I think. Do piads count?

Something doesn't have to be "tight" to be well made, nor does it have to be well made to function. Most Russian arms equal high-quality blacksmithing. Nothing wrong with that if it's what you want.

[wpoppert]

I currently don't own either, but the Mauser is definitely the better rifle.

I currently own a few of both. They're like one's children -- you have to just love them for what they are! To me they are all beautiful (but I'm an admitted slavophile). German engineering is pretty remarkable, though!

[Purdune]

I'm sorry I personally offended you when stating that what appears to be a vital component of your identity is inferior to another...

You didn't offend me with your post but the above pretty much looks like an insult. I'll assume it's not.

FYI, the fact that even today people pay big money, 10x through 100x what you paid for your Mosin, for new manufactured Masuer actioned or derived actions in their rifles should tell you something. You won't see a multi-thousand dollar, custom African game rifle on a Mosin styled action. You see Mausers all the time, so clearly there is something the market deems superior to other alternatives. Besides, come on, German vs. Russian manufacturing quality is a no brainer.

Well I guess I didn't communicate very well as your understanding of what I said is poor. I wasn't arguing that on paper the Mauser wasn't better. I was pointing out that you can't say one is better to own over the other without owning both. There are other factors to be considered. You have the simplistic way of thought that only how well it functions is the only reason to own it.

It is ivory tower, this idea that a Mauser is leaps and bounds above a Mosin. First capatalism dictates that supply is a large portion of price. The number of historical Mauser's are hard to fine however Mosins are being imported like crazy. Assuming you don't have a worn out barrel, which you could have on any used Mauser, a Mosin is pretty accurate and very hard hitting. Clean out the cosmoline from the chamber and polish the bolt and you'll not have problems with the bolt. Also your gun lost a major war against the Mosin. So I'm guessing you didn't even factor in "mono e mono" the Mosin bitch smacked the Mauser.

Next you want to compare German versus Russian manufacturing. Err, so you don't know that not all Mauser's are German made? The other thing your missing is tactics. The Mosin and most Mauser's are designed with different tactics and logistics in mind. Sure the Mauser is designed with the idea that someone is going to well maintain it and fire good ammo. Hunters are going to prefer this. Doesn't mean the Moser won't take down that Elk as well.

That aside, that doesn't mean the Mosin is useless. If you like it, good for you...it's a cool piece of history.

Thanks and I figure you don't have anything really against the Mosin. We haven't meet and we don't know what the intent is behind each others written word. Once again yeah the Mauser is of higher caliber. Did you see that? I was punny! I'm just saying the Mosin is right behind it and has a lot of reasons to own one. Guarantee you if you had one that was well cleaned of cosmoline you'd agree.

[Purdune]

Oh and I know the Soviets were using the Mosin in Afghanistan. I'm pretty sure they are still in use with the Russian army today. Is the German army still using the Mauser? Just curios.

[gunderwood]

I wasn't arguing that on paper the Mauser wasn't better.

Exactly. That's all that was said, the Mauser is the superior firearm design and generally manufacture.

The fact that a specific individual may or may not find a specific item to their liking wasn't the question at hand. The question was about two surplus rifles and which was the better firearm. The price is partially a reflection of this general consensus, but prices are affected by more than just the quality of firearm. Therefore, you can not say that one is better or worse simply based on price. I based my evaluation of the Mosin vs. the Mauser on the design and manufacturing of the two (as an engineer), based on my personal experience with shooting both (accuracy and general function such as bolt manipulation), etc.

I do NOT have to currently own either surplus rifle to answer that question. If the Mosin works for you, great. If you have some requirements, such as being super cheap, that makes the Mosin better for your intended use, there's no problem with that. Lot's of people agree and buy Mosins.

[gunderwood]

Oh and I know the Soviets were using the Mosin in Afghanistan. I'm pretty sure they are still in use with the Russian army today. Is the German army still using the Mauser? Just curios.

The Soviets also lost, so can I can infer that the Mosin was such a POS that a world power lost a war over it?

This is utter silliness. There are lots of reasons nations revert back to older stockpiles of weapons, including simply because they already have them. In this particular case, intermediate cartridges lack the range for that country (at times). That's why we and our allies lug around M14s, AR10s, etc. Even the sniper rifles have been changing to allow for longer range (e.g. 300WM).

[Purdune]

the Mauser is the superior firearm design and generally manufacture.

"superior" is a word I would not use. Better is the word I would use. I fail to see how the Mauser is the superior weapon. Don't give me hogwash that people buy $5,000 dollar blinged out mauser rigs. Most people buy by brand name no matter what the "quality". I also don't buy the "everyone's doing it" argument either. McDonalds is still #1 in hamburger sales. Give me a Five Guys or a Wendy's any day of the week!

This is utter silliness.

LOL, now that's the best statement you have made! Glad to see reasonable people that can have a debate and not get bent out of shape. Especially when the two have never meet and don't know each others personality quarks. I hold my cup of coffee up to you sir!

[OakRidgeStars]

For anyone looking for a Mosin-Nagant M38 carbine, Classic Firearms has them in stock now.

http://www.classicfirearms.com/c-r-eligible/m38rifle

Looks like they have 7.62x54r in stock too.

http://www.classicfirearms.com/ammunition

[j1mmyd]

I've had a couple of them (91/30 & M44) and they turned out to be more fun and nostalgic than practical. Tried different stocks and scope mounts. Played with all sorts of tweaks to make them more reliable. Most expensive cheap guns I've ever owned because I also value my time. Nothing against the fine work done with them by Vasili Zaitsev and Simo Hayha when they were newer, but at current prices you're better off with a well-used modern rifle. The math was more in their favor when Rose's Hardware had dozens of them muzzle down in a wooden barrel for $69 near the checkout...