So, I have finally experienced what many have discussed . .

[SHMIV]

I'm guessing, Kreutz, that Kaos was venting some frustrations here. At least, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Much of what you said above, I agree with. Though, after you've stated that position, I wonder why you initially responded with sarcasm?

I understand why Kaos would feel as he does; conversing with some of those folks can be frustrating. Often, I will engage in debate more for the benefit of a future reader than for my own benefit or the benefit of the guy that I debate. Sometimes it is highly evident that I am debating someone that has given no thought at all to his position; I can tell by his abundant personal attacks and lack of substance in his argument. I may disagree with you often, but I do believe that you have given your positions a lot thought, and I usually feel like you have come to your position relatively independently, as opposed to spouting off a bunch of Huffington Post quotes.

Somewhere in all that was a point. Damned if I can recall what it was, though. Clearly, I need sleep.

[Kreutz]

Much of what you said above, I agree with. Though, after you've stated that position, I wonder why you initially responded with sarcasm?

I don't preach to the choir.

I understand why Kaos would feel as he does; conversing with some of those folks can be frustrating.

Yes, but, if you're not "in it to win it", why even bother? All he managed to do is piss himself and probably his audience off.

Often, I will engage in debate more for the benefit of a future reader than for my own benefit or the benefit of the guy that I debate. Sometimes it is highly evident that I am debating someone that has given no thought at all to his position; I can tell by his abundant personal attacks and lack of substance in his argument.

Yep, and you think about posterity, which is good. If someone stumbles upon your post and sees you're the cool calm one, they'll instinctively take your position more seriously than the other guy raving about "gun toting psycho retards" or whatever. Works the other way around and the guy going on about "commie libtards limp pricks" aint gonna come off looking too good either.

I may disagree with you often, but I do believe that you have given your positions a lot thought, and I usually feel like you have come to your position relatively independently, as opposed to spouting off a bunch of Huffington Post quotes.

Yeah, I definitely have some unique opinions, would have had to come them independently.

Not many hardcore isolationist, universal healthcare loving, indifferent to Iranian nukes, environmentalists that dont believe in global warming, pro-gun, pro-gay civil union, anti-immigrant, wary of deregulation, generally pro-life, thinks the death penalty should be a public and daily event, pro-legalization of most drugs and that want a small defensive military type folks out there.

its lonely being me.

[SHMIV]

its lonely being me.

If it makes you feel any better (and, even if it doesn't, lol), I also believe in public executions. I prefer hangings, as it costs the least.

[seanc]

The other day my Roomate, an anti gunner, who has long protested my ownership of firearms in the house, heard what he described as a terrifying sound in the middle of the night. He told me that he thought someone was breaking in and he freaked out because he was by himself. He asked me if I would mind being woken up in the middle of the night by him to address the issue (with my gun) if it happened again. I ovbiously said i would. Since then, I haven't Heard anymore of his antigun protests. I guess that's a conversion?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[SHMIV]

The other day my Roomate, an anti gunner, who has long protested my ownership of firearms in the house, heard what he described as a terrifying sound in the middle of the night. He told me that he thought someone was breaking in and he freaked out because he was by himself. He asked me if I would mind being woken up in the middle of the night by him to address the issue (with my gun) if it happened again. I ovbiously said i would. Since then, I haven't Heard anymore of his antigun protests. I guess that's a conversion?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

The next step would be to take him shooting. Once he realizes those things don't just start spouting bullets, willy nilly, out of every orifice, he'll probably be quite comfortable with it. Perhaps an in-depth run down of the safety rules, beforehand, would also be beneficial.

[mk4]

agree completely w/ SHMIV, seanc.
you've got a prime teaching moment at hand. grasp it!

[zerodown1]

Your pissin into the wind. Cast not your pearls before the swine.

[GeneFrenkle]

@seanc recommend you teach your roommate gun safety, field stripping your gun, and take to a range. after a great range trip, go to a restaurant. make it a real good time. this stuff is essential safety stuff. everyone in the house should be able to handle a gun properly.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[meadmkr]

Ignorance can be cured through education, but as the saying goes "You can't fix stupid".

Far far too many anti-gun posts on the Washington ComPost these days that the amount of stupid people out there is frightening.

[GettingOld]

Don't stop trying, just expect that your success rate will be very very poor.

I've had small successes by taking the approach of offering to let them explain to me their position so that I can learn from them. Conversations often run along the lines of:

"Assault weapons should be banned ..."

"Wait, I don't actually know what an assault weapon is, could you explain it?"

This more often than not leads to a description of a machine gun and the fact that they don't know the difference.

While I have had pretty good success with this approach on many topics, with guns ... not so much! The problem seems to be that the antis have little real world context with which to work. Their world view comes from TV, Movies, and Games. 1 shot = 1 stop, no one misses and every shot is perfect. The shoot to wound idea derives from this fantasy view. So too the idea of following the rules (No Guns). I remember growing up when I first discovered that someone was cheating at "Go Fish". "Got any 3's"? "That's not allowed," and yet they won and I lost! To be honest, until I had an event smack a little reality into me, I never gave the second amendment it's due beyond that of an academic concept.

In general I still think leading questions work better than telling.

"I heard a conversation on the radio this morning about how relieved people were at the additional police presence. It made me wonder, what aspect of the police presence makes people feel safer? Is it the snappy uniforms? Is it the multicolored lights? If we could only figure out what it is, then we could replicate that special something as a permanent institutional factor. But what could it be?"

Granted that was a little on the snarky side and it only resulted in the person I was talking with turning red and stalking away in a huff. Nevertheless, there are still occasional small successes. Perhaps a seed that may germinate later.