New attitude at Clark Brothers?

NewColonial · Post by **NewColonial** » Tue, 22 May 2012 11:42:02

I guess even the good gun stores get "an attitude." A picked up a Remington 870 Express at Clark Bros a couple weeks ago. Immediately there was a problem. On almost every magazine there would be several shells that would stick in the chamber. It would take really hard pulls, sometimes with two hands to eject them. On occasion we'd get thru a 7 round load with no issues, but rarely. The last straw was when I had to go home and get a wooden dowel to push the fired shell out. We were shooting a variety of ammo, Federal and Remington, in different loads. At the same time loading the identical ammo in another 870, which had no issues. After some research on line, I found a lot of folks reporting the same issue, which was usually cured by polishing the inside of the barrel.

I went back to Clark Bros, described the issue. The clerk grabbed the gun and took it away to be fired. He came back a few minutes later to report "I fired 14 rounds as fast as I could and had no issues." He then told me it was an ammo issue. Said I can't buy ammo at Walmart. And made some remark about the "low end" guns. I explained again how it was name brand ammo (not from Walmart as if the store matters.) At that point another clerk chimed in to tell me they couldn't waste their ammo testing my gun. I informed them again that I wasn't going to keep a gun which was that unreliable. We went round and round for while before he finally decided to give the gun to the gunsmith in the back. After a couple of minutes I heard the sound of a Dremel, or some polishing tool going. The clerk came back and said the gunsmith saw some rough areas in the barrel we was going to polish out. Shortly later I was handed the gun and dismissed with "There, you won't have any problems with it now." I could see the shininess in the end of the barrel.

Went the range and put 40 rounds through it, of the same ammo mix as before, with no issues. I could have saved 20 minutes arguing at Clark Bros if the attitude had been skipped and they just looked at the gun carefully in the first place. Sure, now it's fixed, but I've got a bad taste left. I almost picked up a Ruger 10/22 Breakdown while I was buying the shotgun, but decided to go back for it later. Will probably go somewhere else.

dorminWS · Post by **dorminWS** » Tue, 22 May 2012 11:59:06

NewColonial wrote: Said I can't buy ammo at Walmart. And made some remark about the "low end" guns. I explained again how it was name brand ammo (not from Walmart as if the store matters.)

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I'm not defending the excrementitious attitude of the clerks you dealt with, and if I were you I'd either never go back or have a heart-to-heart talk with the owner/manager about it and then never go back unless he/she satisfies you.

But Walmart HAS been accused of going to suppliers and negotiating for special versions of a common product that can be sold cheaper as a way to acheive an apparent price advantage over their competitors. And cheaper usually means of lower quality. I'm not saying that is the case with their ammo - I just don't know - but I am saying it is possible that just because it looks like the brand and quality you expect doesn't mean it is. So it seems that sometimes the store you bought something from does matter.

joeshmo · Post by **joeshmo** » Tue, 22 May 2012 12:23:10

For starters I would never go to clark brothers in the first place due to the horrible attitude the staff has. I lived right down the street and would frequent them quite a bit when I was bord and cant belive anyone would buy ammo from them. Trust me when I say the owners dont care if you were to give them a call, they make hand over fist in dollars simply because of the location on 29 and the free range (if you buy their overpriced ammo).

As for what dormin said about walmart ammo it is plausable. I bought a few boxes of 9mm and had ejection problems on one of my handguns then a live round got stuck in the chamber and could not rack it to get it out. It took me a few hours to finally remove the jamed round. Once I got it out I went to the NRA range and bought some cheap brass and had no issues, tried out the other walmart ammo and had the same problems with the spent cases ejecting.

NewColonial · Post by **NewColonial** » Tue, 22 May 2012 12:25:24

Just to be clear, my ammo was not from Walmart.

davasmith · Post by **davasmith** » Tue, 22 May 2012 12:45:08

It doesn't matter where you bought the ammo. What they are saying is inferior ammo is exactly that, inferior. I appreciate the heads up on the walmart ammo. I often go there and buy the 50 or 100 rd boxes of 9 and 40. I'll keep the info in mind, however my glock and pt9 eat anything so far.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

NewColonial · Post by **NewColonial** » Tue, 22 May 2012 12:50:46

davasmith wrote:It doesn't matter where you bought the ammo. What they are saying is inferior ammo is exactly that, inferior. I appreciate the heads up on the walmart ammo. I often go there and buy the 50 or 100 rd boxes of 9 and 40. I'll keep the info in mind, however my glock and pt9 eat anything so far.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

But off topic nonetheless. Walmart ammo is not the issue or even connected in any way to the issue. The issue is the attitude at Clark Bros. The only reason Walmart ammo was brought up as because the clerk is a jerk and was trying to keep from dealing with the issue at hand. He simply assumed I was using walmart ammo, which I wasn't. The same ammo worked fine after they reluctantly decided to stand behind the product they sold.

Chasbo00 · Post by **Chasbo00** » Tue, 22 May 2012 12:59:43

Clark's and especially Walmart aside, I would have an issue with Remington assuming that you bought a new gun.

scrubber3 · Post by **scrubber3** » Tue, 22 May 2012 16:35:01

Chasbo00 wrote:Clark's and especially Walmart aside, I would have an issue with Remington assuming that you bought a new gun.

my thoughts exactly. The mere fact that they fixed it for you when technically they weren't obligated to would be reason enough for me to go back. I know of several stores that wouldn't have done it for you unless the manufacturer compensated them for it. I've had nothing but good experiences with those guys. They went out of their way for me more than once.

NewColonial · Post by **NewColonial** » Wed, 23 May 2012 08:15:44

Yes, the issue is ultimately with Remington. However, Clark Bros states guns sold by them have a 1 year warranty, plus they have a 30-day return policy. How much better service would it have been to simply have the gunsmith look at it, see an issue, and them spend 2 minutes fixing it? Instead they had 2 employees spend 20 minutes acting like <strike>jerks</strike> stereotypical gun shop know-it-alls (who didn't). "We're not wasting our ammo [honoring our warranty.]

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Wed, 23 May 2012 09:12:41

I'm with NewColonial on this. I have a well used Rem 870 that on occasion has extraction issues. I think I will have the CHAMBER polished. That is what you did, not "barrel" polished.

The tendency to blame any and everything except that which you have an obligation to resolve is practically the default position. That is now how I would run a business, and it is pretty stupid behavior for an employee who doesn't even have a vested interest in the matter.

Finally, YOU NEED TO STOP USING INFERIOR WAL MART AMMO, MAN!

I KEED!

NewColonial · Post by **NewColonial** » Wed, 23 May 2012 09:25:07

Chamber. That's it. Every time I wrote barrel it seemed wrong but brain didn't work!

Chamber. Got it.

jrswanson1 · Post by **jrswanson1** » Wed, 23 May 2012 10:46:00

Just as an FYI, Remington shotguns and steel based shells are a known issue. That said, polishing the chamber should have been done at the factory. Ever since Remington got bought out by that holding company, they've been cutting corners in everything.

NewColonial · Post by **NewColonial** » Wed, 23 May 2012 10:50:48

Red herring. I wasn't using steel based shells. But did try some after the polishing, they're fine.

I agree Remington failed, the issue is the attitude at CB.

Regarding the issues with Remingtion QC, the clerk at CB also claimed Remingtons NEVER have any issues, so it had to be my fault.

RugerJoe · Post by **RugerJoe** » Wed, 23 May 2012 11:13:30

The most interesting thing I've taken from this thread are the thoughts and worries about Wal-mart ammunition. I've actually never purchased from wal-mart before. I mainly stick to online orders but lately the shipping is getting kind of nuts so I was considering heading in to wal mart for ammo next time around. I'm kind of curious enough to make some phone calls to investigate the idea that wal-mart is some how selling sub standard ammunition to offer the lowest price possible.
All I could think of when I first thought about this is....wouldn't wal mart be opening itself up to some serious law suits if this was true?
Some guy walks into wal-mart assuming he is buying run of the mill ammunition to protect himself and the wal mart "sub standard" ammunition ends up failing to fire so he gets beaten and stabbed nearly to death and sues? What exactly would the manufacturers be cutting back on? Are they selling defects and seconds through wal mart? Are they shaving just a few grains off the advertised bullet weight or the powder charge and then mislabeling the boxes to open themselves up to false advertising law suits too? Again, this does not make sense to me.
I've heard of wal mart applying all sorts of interesting pressures to in the end offer the best pricing or value for the customer and to bully manufacturers. I heard they forced Vlasic to sell pickles in 10 lb jars once and threatened not to sell the pickles at all if it wasn't sold and packaged in that way specifically for wal mart. I just can't believe ammo manufacturers would crap down ammo or sell seconds via a major retailer like this and it would essentially (pardon the pun) not eventually blow up in their face.

Chasbo00 · Post by **Chasbo00** » Wed, 23 May 2012 12:23:41

The ammo manufacturers are not hurting for business, and they are not being extorted or bullied by Walmart. There is no big surplus of ammo in the market to drive pricing down. These manufacturers don't make special runs for Walmart, but like nearly all other manufacturers, they love huge orders and Walmart delivers here for sure. Walmart sells mainly cheap ammo because that is what sells best for them.

Steel, low-based shotgun shells from Winchester and other manufacturers are available at lots of places besides Walmart as are other low cost types of ammo.

The defensive pistol ammo I've seen in Walmart has usually been Winchester PDX - not substandard stuff at all.

SHMIV · Post by **SHMIV** » Wed, 23 May 2012 12:30:02

Interesting thread, this. I reckon that I shall have to polish the chamber on my 870 clone.

Reverenddel · Post by **Reverenddel** » Wed, 23 May 2012 12:49:33

As to Wal-mart ammo? Other than the low-walled Winchester ammo? I have no problems with any ammo from Wally-World!

Heck! Tula 7.62x39 at $4.97 is a BARGAIN to me!

As to why "low-walled winchester" sticks in Remingtons? It's because the tolerances are different in low-walled cases (Pushes the plastic out more, causing a tighter seal), and Remington saves money NOT polishing their chambers anymore...

Suggestion? A tube of "Flitz", and a old t-shirt, just go in/out, not circles. Defeats the purpose.

dorminWS · Post by **dorminWS** » Wed, 23 May 2012 12:55:54

Chasbo00 wrote:The ammo manufacturers are not hurting for business, and they are not being extorted or bullied by Walmart. There is no big surplus of ammo in the market to drive pricing down. These manufacturers don't make special runs for Walmart, but like nearly all other manufacturers, they love huge orders and Walmart delivers here for sure. Walmart sells mainly cheap ammo because that is what sells best for them.

Steel, low-based shotgun shells from Winchester and other manufacturers are available at lots of places besides Walmart as are other low cost types of ammo.

The defensive pistol ammo I've seen in Walmart has usually been Winchester PDX - not substandard stuff at all.

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Got some news for you: ANYBODY who deals with Walmart gets extorted and bullied. Sometimes it doesn't work (like in the buyers market for ammo you talked about), but they always try. That's why you get used to buying something you lkike at Walmart and then suddenly they don't have it anymore. Walmart builds up enough business for you to hate to lose it, and then puts the screws to you. If you don't cave in, they just quit selling whatever it is.

Chasbo00 · Post by **Chasbo00** » Wed, 23 May 2012 13:18:32

dorminWS wrote: Got some news for you: ANYBODY who deals with Walmart gets extorted and bullied. Sometimes it doesn't work (like in the buyers market for ammo you talked about), but they always try.

Actually, I think China is the one doing the bullying to Walmart and the rest of us too.

CSnyder · Post by **CSnyder** » Wed, 23 May 2012 15:57:59

My job is all customer service, if I treated any one of my customers like CB apparently treated NC I would be fired or severely punished. When you have customers that have issues with a product or service YOU provided them, YOU run to the problem not away from it and make the resolution as painless as possible, yes this takes a little more effort. That being said it is their establishment and they are free to run it in whichever way they choose.

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