Since I'm mew here I still can't tell weather or not this is a pro cop site. I looked and looked on here for this story and couldn't find anything about the Teacher getting shot by a cop and was caught lying about it.
Now from the way the story seems like this cop might have shot at here cause she tried to get away from him, even though his story was that he was being dragged by his arm. Well I have to call shenanigans of this, they don't offer much info but some things bother me.
Like what arm was he getting dragged by?
What side is his firearm on, how was he able to hang on pull his gun and get clean shots?
How come there isn't any dash cam video?
Just way to many factors, in another case of a rogue cop shooting at something once again, that just don't add up at all. Still can't find any new info on this, but I'm sure the Nazi's are dragging there feet on this one.
Last edited by allingeneral on Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:13:51, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:embedded youtube video as such: [youtube]BSPhC916GQM[/youtube]
i wouldn't say this forum is pro or anti police. i would say it is pro freedom, pro rights, pro justice, etc.
if you want to read a lively discussion on the culpeper shooting, which has many people angry, disturbed and appalled, have a look at: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showt ... r-shooting
611 posts over 25 pages. many of us are members on both forums.
“For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)
That's my question, no sense in even talking about it until that's released.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
-Winston Churchill
That's my question, no sense in even talking about it until that's released.
there's *no* dash cam video to be released, guys. the reports are that the dash cam wasn't operating at the time of the stop. don't recall if the report was that it was inoperable or just switched off. this travesty has been going on for 4+ weeks now, without anything substantive reported.
the vsp is likely long-done with its investigation and has turned its findings over to the special prosecutor. the spec pros has to make a 'good shoot' declaration or take it to a grand jury. as another person has said in the other forum thread... the spec pros is probably trying to figure out how to say cop = good / sunday school teacher = bad.
“For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)
It goes three ways on this forum some, for some folks default their setting is the Police are repressive and authoritarian and other folks believe the Police had to have a reason to do anything, and the third group is, let us see where the evidence leads and then decide where they fall. I think I am in the third group. I have seen instances where Police have been overzealous and those officers were reprimanded or fired. I have also seen cases where the Police were doing the right thing.
On the surface, it would appear to be strange circumstances leading to the death of the teacher. From what the little video clip shows, all I have is questions: Where were you standing? Where were the Police Officer and woman parked? Why didn't the reporter put the man in his spot so we could see what his perspective was? From his point of view, could he have even seen the officer's hands or heard him talk to the woman? That reporter really did a shabby job of interviewing that individual.
On the Police side of the investigation, which we are not going to get the information on for a while if ever. The questions I would be asking is: Why was the officer interacting with the lady? Was it just a ticket or were there other circumstances leading to his stopping the lady, like another crime in the area involving a vehicle of that description? What is the department's policy concerning the officer sticking his arm in the vehicle window? Why, if the officer shattered the window and got loose from the vehicle, did he continue shooting at the escaping vehicle? What probable cause did he have to believe that she presented further danger to the community? If the officer was being dragged there should be some evidence that was case, scrapped shoes, damaged uniform parts.
I know of two similar cases, one was a trooper who was actually dragged 50-100 yards before shooting one shot through the window that shattered the window and killed the driver. His uniform, shoes and injuries were all the evidence that were needed to believe he was dragged. That lead to a change in area policy, that no more than a hand was supposed to be inside the window frame and a lot of Police won't reach in at all instead expecting the driver to pass the license and registration out the window. The second instance involved an officer that received a call to go to a location where on a blind curve, a lady would drive her car across the street to the mailbox partially obstructing a lane, facing the car into oncoming traffic, collect her mail and then driving back across the road. The officer observed it happen, pulled into the driveway behind her and attempted to write a ticket. She rolled her window down part way to talk to the officer, he asked for license and registration, she told him to come and get it. needless to say he reached in she rolled the window up on his arm. she was then maced. The review in that officer's case was that he violated policy by sticking his arm in the window and he was encouraged to seek employment opportunities elsewhere.
As for the whole dash cam question, this may shock some folks, not every police car in VA is equipped with a dash cam and I would even venture the guess that the number if far less than half of them. even if he had a dash cam the car has to be pointed in the right direction to be effective. Hopefully if the car was so equipped, more important in my eyes, would be if the officer was miked and do they have the audio of what happened...
You just have to ask yourself, is he telling you the truth based on knowledge and experience or spreading internet myths?
You know what they say about eyewitnesses, too... they aren't exactly reliable.
Just food for thought - the person says he couldn't have had his hands/arms inside the vehicle because the window was up and he shot through the glass - well, maybe it's just me, but it's hard to get an officers hands/arm stuck if you're not rolling up the window... if the window was wide open, then I'm not sure how stuck he would have been...
Not much info from this video to make any determination...
Si vis pacem, para bellum. Resistance to Tyranny is Obedience to God.
As for the whole dash cam question, this may shock some folks, not every police car in VA is equipped with a dash cam and I would even venture the guess that the number if far less than half of them. even if he had a dash cam the car has to be pointed in the right direction to be effective. Hopefully if the car was so equipped, more important in my eyes, would be if the officer was miked and do they have the audio of what happened...
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
-Winston Churchill
@grumpyMSG...
the car was dashcam-equipped. it was not operating. this is attributed to a cpd spokesperson by a news reporting agency. i'm looking for an authoritative cite.
there is so much wrong with this whole incident, and the silence is deafening.
“For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)
"The Culpeper town spokesperson says the officer's cruiser did have a video camera, but that it was not working. He also said the officer did not turn on his blue lights. If he had, it would've been a sign that he was detaining the person, says attorney and former Fairfax County Police officer Ted Sibert . If the person is not being detained, she should be free to go, Sibert says."
“For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)
The silence is deafening. I imagine if it was a clean shoot the police would be crowing six ways to Monday. However I have a few pointed questions about the situation that I doubt will ever be answered.
#1 What was his arm doing in the car?
#2 Which arm was in the car--dominant or non dominant? That would be verified by the bruises on the arm that was caught.
#3 What did he do or say to make this normally compliant law abiding citizen get so scared that she saw no other option but to drive off?
#4 It was a handcrank window (not exactly known for speed)--why oh why did you not take your arm out of the car?
#4How did he draw his gun and shoot out the window if his arm was caught--the only thing I can think is perhaps a bug or it was his non-dominant hand that was caught?
#5Why after he was free did he continue to fire at the vehicle?
In any case nothing can bring back that woman. The only hope is for the truth to come out.
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
mamabearCali wrote:The silence is deafening. I imagine if it was a clean shoot the police would be crowing six ways to Monday. However I have a few pointed questions about the situation that I doubt will ever be answered.
#1 What was his arm doing in the car?
#2 Which arm was in the car--dominant or non dominant? That would be verified by the bruises on the arm that was caught.
#3 What did he do or say to make this normally compliant law abiding citizen get so scared that she saw no other option but to drive off?
#4 It was a handcrank window (not exactly known for speed)--why oh why did you not take your arm out of the car?
#4How did he draw his gun and shoot out the window if his arm was caught--the only thing I can think is perhaps a bug or it was his non-dominant hand that was caught?
#5Why after he was free did he continue to fire at the vehicle?
In any case nothing can bring back that woman. The only hope is for the truth to come out.
#5 is especially true. No threat why are you still shooting? Remember the Florida Pharmacist that got in trouble when he shot the armed robber in the head after he was already was down? He got a life sentence.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
-Winston Churchill
I agree with the others, the silence is deafening on the part of the Police Department. I don't know any of the town police but the most of the county deputies I have met have been pretty level-headed.
I don't think it matters wether you are pro- or anti police, if the witness and facts are to be believed then this is either a case of over zealousness/adrenaline dump or a case of manslaughter.
That determination is up to the investigative authority or a jury as the case may be.
The first thing that bothers me is the husband, he seemed confused as why she would have been at the church in the first place. If she was there for an interview, he reacted like, she would have told him about it ?? That is what I got from the news interview of him. Second, as mentioned before, even if his arm was in the window and he got it free; why did he continue firing as she drove away ?? On the news video there seems to be a wide pattern of shells on the ground.
Seems to be a couple of things missing from the equation. I would be curious to hear how the conversation started off and how it lead to the shooting/driving away.
"Respect for religion must be reestablished. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped. The people should not depend on government for subsistence." - Cicero, 60 B.C.
You know it is not a crime to stop in a church parking lot. It is not even suspicious. I have stopped in church parking lots for many reasons that had 0 to do with the church. Let me list a few. Answering a cell phone call that required more concentration than yep I'll be home in 10, dropped something on the floor, lost a contact lense, put in a new destination on a GPS unit, to look at a map, to simply stop and clear my thoughts and make plans. None of these things are criminal. So just because the husband was not sure why she was in a parking lot does not means she was up to no good.
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"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
It does sound like part of the story is missing. But even if it went down exactly as the official version says it did, there are valid reasons that full disclosure might be delayed -for a while. Of course, there are invalid ones, too.
I thought the husband's interview was weird. Made me wonder just how much they really liked each other (or at least how much he liked her). Made me wonder if he was being completely frank, honest and forthcoming. All of which focused my mind on how much younger than him the wife appeared to be. Which sort of jogged the notion that there appeared to be some confusion about exactly what the woman was doing at the church to begin with. Oh, well ......... none of my business, really. I'm sure the police will explain it all, by and by.......
"The Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference." -Thomas Jefferson
Gun-crazy? Me? I'd say the gun-crazy ones are the ones that don’t HAVE one.
dorminWS wrote:I'm sure the police will explain it all, by and by.......
sure? really?
well, i guess they'll explain it. the question is... will it be the truth or a fabrication. far too many inconsistencies on this, and the way it's being handled simply isn't building public confidence and trust.
“For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)
marked8 wrote:The state needs to be investigating this. Too many unarmed motorists seem to wind up dead these days.
well, the va state police did investigate. 'we the people' are waiting to learn of their reconstruction of the event. unfortunately, it'll be necessarily be somewhat one-sided since there is only one side to tell the story.
“For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)
