Ar scope

Discussions about reliability, accuracy, cost and other factors relating your your current glass or a new purchase
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dusterdude
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Ar scope

Post by dusterdude »

On a 300 blackout ar,will a 1x30 be ok for reaching out to 1000 yards?if not,what do ya'll recommend.thanks
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M1A4ME
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Re: Ar scope

Post by M1A4ME »

1. You don't want a .300 BO for 1,000 yd. shooting. Out to 300 yds? Okay, still a lot of bullet drop between 200 yds. and 300 yds.

2. A 1X scope is no magnification at all - or just like shooting iron sights as far as target identification and how the target looks to your eyes.
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Re: Ar scope

Post by dusterdude »

What caliber would you recommend to reach out and touch someone at 1000 or so yards?any suggestions on a scope for such distance as well?thanks
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jdonovan
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Re: Ar scope

Post by jdonovan »

what do you need the projectile to do when it gets there?
paper?
game?

If you don't have $3-5k for rifle, scope and supporting equipment, then table the idea until you do.
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Re: Ar scope

Post by MarcSpaz »

Per AAC, the company who invented the round, the 300 Blackout fired out of a 16 inch barrel, meeting the ballistic gel test requirements to be affective on a soft target (i.e. combat effective range), has a max of about 500 yards with 125 grain supersonic. Of course, real world, your weapon and ammo choices all affect that estimate... likely for the worse, not the better. They claim a max of 870 yards for repeatable results on paper. Max 220 yards for passing ballistics gel testing on sub-sonic.

There is very little difference in performance between the 9" and 24" barrel rifle performance. You are looking at 100" of drop at 500 yards (about the same as an M4).

If you want to poke holes in paper, you should look at .308, 6.8, 7, etc. If you want an effective weapon, that becomes something beyond the research I have done. well, I have done some, but I am not an authority and don't feel comfortable making recommendations.
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Re: Ar scope

Post by dusterdude »

Im looking at human targets when the shtf
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Re: Ar scope

Post by jdonovan »

Then I prefer something with more retained energy at that range. Depending on the barrel length, many 308 win. loadings are subsonic before 100 yds.

working at that distance I'd want a minimum 30-cal magnum, or preferably 338/375/50... probably in that order for soft things, and the reverse for hard things.

You may have read my discussions on this topic before... long distance is all about wind and distance estimation. 1" 100 yd rifle, is a 10" 1000 yd rifle... so it has much less to do with the stick and much more with the environmental conditions.
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Re: Ar scope

Post by grumpyMSG »

dusterdude wrote:Im looking at human targets when the shtf
You leave them alone, few people pose a threat at 3000 feet. Observe them, and watch their actions and movement. If they come closer and present a threat, then consider responding. Killing or wounding a person at a half a mile or more would be hard to justify in any court of law and I don't see any jury not convicting you of murder or attempted murder.
You just have to ask yourself, is he telling you the truth based on knowledge and experience or spreading internet myths?
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Re: Ar scope

Post by MarcSpaz »

grumpyMSG wrote:
dusterdude wrote:Im looking at human targets when the shtf
You leave them alone, few people pose a threat at 3000 feet. Observe them, and watch their actions and movement. If they come closer and present a threat, then consider responding. Killing or wounding a person at a half a mile or more would be hard to justify in any court of law and I don't see any jury not convicting you of murder or attempted murder.

I am assuming he is thinking of a point where things like law and justice have fallen apart.... which is why I am looking to go down the same road. Katrina / LA Riots / Ferguson... are PDW situations. Government collapse... foreign invasion... now we are in .338 and 50 BMG territory.
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Re: Ar scope

Post by dusterdude »

Xactly
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Re: Ar scope

Post by dusterdude »

And im willing to back off my 1000 yard number a bit as well
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Re: Ar scope

Post by jdonovan »

dusterdude wrote:And im willing to back off my 1000 yard number a bit as well
define a bit?

beyond MAX PBR all the problems of 1000 still exist, but to a lesser extent. it may be a matter of inches vs feet, but range estimation and wind reading are more critical to making the hit than cartridge selection.
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Re: Ar scope

Post by MarcSpaz »

Touching more on what JD is saying, I noticed that from zero to 100 yards, you can almost totally ignore conditions. However even at 100 yards you still need slight adjustments for extreme deviations in elevation between you and a target.

The farthest known distance I have shot so far was about 240 yards. Even at that distance, I noticed things like temp, barometric pressure and wind speed, all started having an impact on the POI. Of course it was minimal, but noticeable.

Unlike MOA drift due to improper aiming, wind can have a much more dramatic effect on a bullet. I've read about millitary sharp shooters aiming 12 feet above and 35 feet+ to one side or another to hit the target. Depending on your optics, in those conditions, the target may not even be in your field of view when you pull the trigger.

That's why sellecting a round has been so hard for me. I have found ammo with outstanding drag coefficient, but it's rare and or expensive. The more readily available stuff does fly as flat and is less forgiving in wind. So, I still haven't bought anything usable past 500 yards.
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Re: Ar scope

Post by dusterdude »

Let me start over.when i was in the corps,we shot m16's with iron sights,i could shoot the balls off a gnat with that rifle.now,the ar kit im going to buy is a flat top,i need a scope to mount to the rail and i dont want to spend a million dollars on it.
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Re: Ar scope

Post by MarcSpaz »

If you want inexpensive and reliable, I don't know that is possible. For a flat top shooting 5.56 or .223, I had great success with my Nikon. I was $400.

http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/niko ... -----.html

Otherwise, you are going to want to step into something like a nice Burris XTR II for around $1,200.

http://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/xtr- ... -3-15x50mm
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dusterdude
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Re: Ar scope

Post by dusterdude »

Thanks marc
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Re: Ar scope

Post by M1A4ME »

grumpyMSG wrote:
dusterdude wrote:Im looking at human targets when the shtf
You leave them alone, few people pose a threat at 3000 feet. Observe them, and watch their actions and movement. If they come closer and present a threat, then consider responding. Killing or wounding a person at a half a mile or more would be hard to justify in any court of law and I don't see any jury not convicting you of murder or attempted murder.
He's right. Law or no law. How is someone 1000 yds. away a threat to you/yours.

If it's truly a SHTF situation and you're doing the smart things, someone that far away will never know you're there. Why let everyone know by shooting a gun? You may have to shoot a gun, at some point, if your safety is threatened. At 1000 yds. they will walk on by and never know you're there. Or if you have no doubt they are BAD people and need to be killed, you'll get more if you wait till they get closer and you're used that time to set up in a good spot.

Heck, where I live, not too far south of Richmond, the farthest I can see is about 100 yds.

If you still feel the need for being able to shoot, and hit, a man sized target at 1000 yds. then you probably need a bolt action rifle, in a magnum caliber (.30 caliber or larger), with a very good scope (not just the power rating but also very good clear bright glass/image), a bipod, a range finder, a good pair of binoculars (as good as the scope), lots of ammo (you've got to practice a lot) and a place to shoot/practice at that range. Around here, there is only one or two ranges that you can even shoot out to 500 yds.
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Re: Ar scope

Post by jdonovan »

dusterdude wrote:i need a scope to mount to the rail and i dont want to spend a million dollars on it.
get me your price range, and I've got recommendations.
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Re: Ar scope

Post by SHMIV »

1000 yards is 3000 feet. 1 mile is 5280 feet, so 1000 yards is less than a mile. Personally, I can read most signs on the interstate (on a clear day, on a long straight stretch of road) at about 3/4 mile, and see them at 5 miles. With a good set of binoculars, I imagine that one could figure out exactly who was coming when they get 1000 yards out.

Military snipers are trained to shoot at such long distances. Surely, they know who they are about to shoot. A shtf scenario would be, pretty much, a war zone. If a military sniper is justified in taking out a man at that distance in a war overseas, then I would think that a man defending his property in a war at home would be afforded the same justification.

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Re: Ar scope

Post by MarcSpaz »

Well said H!
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