Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

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Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby ShotgunBlast » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:50:06

Now a respected voice on the right, one that has previously been in favor of some gun control, has come out in staunch resistance to gun registration schemes. Dr. Ben Carson said he no longer believes in gun registration because America’s insane national debt could turn the nation into a third-world country under martial law, a situation in which law-abiding and good people will need to be armed for protection.


http://conservativetribune.com/never-re ... your-guns/

What do you think about Carson's change of heart? Is it an "evolution" on this position or is he looking to get this flip-flop done and out of the way early because he's thinking about running in 2016? I like the guy and think he's accomplished much and would even consider voting for him, but he'd never get the GOP nod with his old position on guns.

He does make a good case that our escalating national debt would be the end of us instead of some outright invasion. I've thought that our national debt has been our biggest security vulnerability for awhile, and even the BRICS are looking to establish their own bank so they don't have to go through US dollars to trade with each other.


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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby trailrunner » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:22:05

It may or may not be a flip-flop. I don't know that much about Carson so I can't speculate what his thinking might be. But there's a lot of people who have anti-gun opinions because they never really (really) thought about it, and just sort of adopted an anti-gun position by default or accident. (Really, it's because they swallow what the media tells them.) But once they think about it, and apply some logic, or shoot a gun themselves, or try to buy one or carry one, they have a change of heart and understand the issue more, and eventually change their position to more of a pro-gun stance. Looking at Carson's past, he might fall into that category, because I doubt that he ever owned a gun, and most of his political energy has been focused on other issues that he's more familiar with, such as Obamacare. As a political outsider, he strikes me as placing a higher priority on honesty, rather than saying the right thing -- or maybe I'm naive? -- so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

However, I think I would have preferred that he arrived at that position from a bit different direction - e.g., rights are fundamental, the 2nd amendment should mean what it says, people have an inherent right to daily self-protection, gun laws don't work, and so on, rather than on basing his viewpoint on a potential breakdown of society caused by economic collapse.


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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby FiremanBob » Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:55:47

I would guess that given the all-consuming nature of his career, and the other paths that have so far led to his constitutional conservativism, Carson simply hasn't thought much about 2A in his life but was surrounded by antis; and therefore some evolution is to be expected once he began thinking about the matter.
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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby MarcSpaz » Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:55:28

trailrunner wrote:However, I think I would have preferred that he arrived at that position from a bit different direction - e.g., rights are fundamental, the 2nd amendment should mean what it says, people have an inherent right to daily self-protection, gun laws don't work, and so on, rather than on basing his viewpoint on a potential breakdown of society caused by economic collapse.



^^^ This.

I like Carson's statement because it not only has believability, but there is a likelihood. The problem is, he may be missing the whole point of the 2A.

The fundamental, natural right to be able to protect yourself must never be denied. If recognizing our natural right to defend ourselves AND the limits placed on the government by the constitution are not the main reason... then its still a fail.


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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby dorminWS » Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:19:14

If you boil it down, it seems his thought process must have been "since it is likely you might actually NEED to defend yourself, you ought to be allowed to have a gun". That implies that in his mind the rights of self-defense and to keep and bear arms are CONFERRED by the government if someone decides you NEED them rather than being the God-given, inherent and unalienable basic rights of Americans. This is NOT reassuring. If that's not what Dr. Carson meant, he needs to say so, IMO. I am very disappointed by this. Everything else I'm aware that he's said made so much sense.
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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby wittmeba » Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:32:13

If you read what Ben Carson has said, he is still riding the fence. He does not seem to be fully committing to a "total 2A" supporter but wants to retain some level of modification which is what we have been fighting for a while now. Extended magazines, pistol grips, black rifles, suppressors, etc. When you start defining the list of exceptions you will quickly experience "scope creep". He seems non-committing and that tells me he could be muscled in either direction by other forces.
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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby mamabearCali » Thu, 24 Jul 2014 10:20:49

Perhaps he has just never thought it out. I was never out and out anti-gun but until I thought about it had a sort of don't care attitude. Till I had a reason to think it through.

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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby Taggure » Thu, 24 Jul 2014 15:11:37

mamabearCali wrote:Perhaps he has just never thought it out. I was never out and out anti-gun but until I thought about it had a sort of don't care attitude. Till I had a reason to think it through.

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I agree with you as well.

To me growing up we always had guns around and were trained at a young age to respect them and to use them. This was not a one off thing as every kid I went to school (Rural Country School) would talk about it as well; and yes even the girls learned to shoot and a few were better shots then us boys.
I never worried to much about the 2A much and until the last 10 - 15 years myself as the only reason that I used a weapon was for hunting and plinking (which I enjoyed a lot by the way). But then I started to pay more attention when I couldn't carry a rifle or shotgun in the gun rack in my pickup anymore and saw more restrictions were being put on gun owners (Like the one gun a month BS) and that is when I really started to get involved. Now I am Pro 2A, Pro Open Carry, Pro Concealed Carry, Pro Hunting and Pro anything that has to do with the 2A and shooting.

Yes I am that Gun Totin Bible reading Stand Your Ground Deer Huntin’ Redneck; Oh and don’t forget I am White (German/Irish) Protestant Male as well and I think we could do far worse then a fellow like Ben Carson just look at the Id10t we have in the White House now.

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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby Kreutz » Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:02:37

Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist; that denomination is strongly anti-gun.


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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby OleMan » Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:51:04

Well, if Dr. Carson wants to run as a conservative and have half a chance of winning, he better embrace the 2nd Amendment whole heartedly. Otherwise, the folks that Lil Barry Obummer says are 'clinging to their God, their guns and their Bible' won't buy in.
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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby OleMan » Thu, 24 Jul 2014 23:57:03

Kreutz wrote:Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist; that denomination is strongly anti-gun.


I didn't know that he is an Adventist. My comment was not intended to make light of your post. I just get hot about lukewarm attitudes toward the 2nd Amendment.

I had not heard that Adventists were anti-gun, but it comes as no suprise. Numbers of Christians are trending to some of the anti positioins. The irony is that many of the same people who would give them gun control are also anti-Christian.
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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby mamabearCali » Mon, 28 Jul 2014 14:26:11

Not the Christians I am around. Just about all of them are very pro-2nd amendment. Perhaps urban Christians are anti? I don't know, most of us take pretty serious our Lords recommendation that those without a sword sell their cloak and buy one,

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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby Kreutz » Mon, 28 Jul 2014 15:40:14

mamabearCali wrote:Not the Christians I am around. Just about all of them are very pro-2nd amendment. Perhaps urban Christians are anti? I don't know, most of us take pretty serious our Lords recommendation that those without a sword sell their cloak and buy one,

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Catholics, Church of the Brethren, Seventh Day Adventists, United Methodist, United Church of Christ, Quakers, the Episcopalians, and the Lutherans come to mind as dedicated anti-gun denominations.

I'm sure there are more.


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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby MarcSpaz » Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:14:42

You realize that 100% of the Italian mafia are all Catholics, right?

I was raised Catholic and I only know 1 Catholic personally who doesn't like guns... and I married her. LOL

I don't know why, but for some reason, I want to say at one point the Catholic church had the largest standing army in the world. During the Crusades maybe? I don't remember. I know they still have a standing Army... though not very large... are extremely well armed with some seriously hard hitting firepower.


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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby Kreutz » Mon, 28 Jul 2014 16:25:57

MarcSpaz wrote:Are you crazy? You realize that 100% of the Italian mafia are all Catholics, right?

I was raised Catholic and I only know 1 Catholic personally who doesn't like guns... and I married her. LOL


My wife is Catholic, but I like to read The Catholic Virginian (diocesan periodical) she gets simply because I like to read and the official position of the Dioceses of Arlington and Richmond was to encourage the faithful to lobby to keep the one handgun a month law.

Gun control is also the official position of the USCCB( United States Conference of Catholic Bishops).

http://www.usccb.org/news/2012/12-219.cfm

WASHINGTON—In the aftermath of the Sandy Hook tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut, the chairmen of three committees of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) issued a joint statement to decry violence in society. The bishops repeated the call from Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York, president of USCCB, who expressed on the day of the horrible tragedy, deepest sorrow for all the victims and a call to work for peace in our homes, streets and world. They called on all Americans, especially legislators, to address national policies that will strengthen regulations of firearms and improve access to health care for those with mental health needs.


Always think twice before dropping your cash in whatever plate it may be; you never know where the money will wind up. May very well be spent to fight your rights.

I don't remember. I know they still have a standing Army... though not very large... they are extremely well armed with some seriously hard hitting firepower.


I've been to the Vatican and remember the snipers posted around the perimeter...guns for me and not for thee is common to all gun-grabbers.


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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby MarcSpaz » Mon, 28 Jul 2014 17:13:27

Kreutz wrote:My wife is Catholic, but I like to read The Catholic Virginian (diocesan periodical) she gets simply because I like to read and the official position of the Dioceses of Arlington and Richmond was to encourage the faithful to lobby to keep the one handgun a month law.

Gun control is also the official position of the USCCB( United States Conference of Catholic Bishops).


Very good point.

Honestly, the hypocrisy of the opinions and actions of the Church are why I stopped attending.

Kreutz wrote:http://www.usccb.org/news/2012/12-219.cfm

WASHINGTON—In the aftermath of the Sandy Hook tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut, the chairmen of three committees of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) issued a joint statement to decry violence in society. The bishops repeated the call from Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York, president of USCCB, who expressed on the day of the horrible tragedy, deepest sorrow for all the victims and a call to work for peace in our homes, streets and world. They called on all Americans, especially legislators, to address national policies that will strengthen regulations of firearms and improve access to health care for those with mental health needs.


Always think twice before dropping your cash in whatever plate it may be; you never know where the money will wind up. May very well be spent to fight your rights.



The hypocrisy of the opinions and actions of the Church are why I stopped attending.


Kreutz wrote:I've been to the Vatican and remember the snipers posted around the perimeter...guns for me and not for thee is common to all gun-grabbers.


I don't know if I mentioned it, but the hypocrisy of the opinions and actions of the Church are why I stopped attending. LOL

You are very correct though. Every one of these politicians who want to take our guns are all protected by men with guns. Several of them own weapons themselves. Just asinine of them.


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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby andykim » Mon, 28 Jul 2014 22:58:34

Intelligent , accomplished, Articulate with that touch of Commonsense 98% of Politicians lack or lose after being elected (sigh)...Nice dude but I concur with many others here. He'll have to refer to the 2nd as his compass on this issue or just step aside.


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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby mamabearCali » Fri, 01 Aug 2014 22:07:31

There are a ton more denominations than the ones listed. Many of whom probably have no stated position. Even more parishioners/congregants/whatever that do not and would not agree with their leaderships stated position.

The Catholic Church is a conundrum. They are massive and they have a massive following. On some issues they are unimpeachable. On some issue they are out to lunch. Sometimes I think they end up so idealistic that they miss the big picture. Can't be helped.

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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby SHMIV » Sat, 02 Aug 2014 01:29:45

Don't judge pastors and parishioners by the denomination.

My father is a United Methodist pastor. He is VERY pro-2A. Most of both of his congregations are also pro2A. The pastor of the Methodist church that I used to attend was also pro2A; he actually suggested (in a very vague and diplomatic way) that the congregation arm themselves, during one sermon.

I suspect that, as with the Methodists, there are those who still subscribe to the old beliefs within all the denominations. It's the neohippie church invaders that you have to worry about.

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Re: Ben Carson Changes Position - Don't Register Guns

Postby MarcSpaz » Sat, 02 Aug 2014 01:36:04

Neohippie and Neophyte alike.


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