Thompson/Center Arms Forend Contender G2 Pistol WalnutForend Contender G2 Pistol Walnut
Thompson/Center Arms
    Thompson/Center Arms Walnut Grip for Encore PistolWalnut Grip for Encore Pistol
Thompson/Center Arms
    Thompson/Center Arms TC Encore Butt Stock Walnut - Encore ButtstockTC Encore Butt Stock Walnut - Encore Buttstock
Thompson/Center Arms

Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

The Code of Virginia is not preemptible by local statute

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby user » Wed, 16 Nov 2011 05:35:12

VCU Student (OP): A court appointed attorney may be worse than no attorney - it all depends on the luck of the draw - some are really good, some are really bad, and most are average.

Feel free to give me a call, 540 347 2430 - no charge unless I feel like I have to actually do "work" and I'll let you know before that happens.

I happen to have another case right now in Loudoun on this issue. The cop wants a "test case", so she's experimenting on my client. I filed a motion and memorandum asking for dismissal, since the cop went so far as to file a written complaint alleging that the gun was inside a closed "glove compartment". (I liked the use of the word, "compartment".) The judge looked like, "why are we even here?", but the prosecutor said the deputies need "guidance" from the court, and asked for a week to file a written response. I get another week after that to file rebuttal. The court put it on the docket for Dec. 13 on the assumption that if she rules favorably on my motion, we don't need to come back. I think that's what's going to happen.
Nothing I say as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Legal questions should be presented to a competent attorney licensed to practice in the relevant state.
http://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com


User avatar
user
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:43:43
Location: Northern Piedmont & Mid-Nowhere, W.Va.
First Name: DLH

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby GmuGuy » Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:02:12

user can you keep us updated how that other case turns out? thanks


User avatar
GmuGuy
On Target
On Target
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 00:21:53
First Name: Brian

My Arsenal:
H&K USP 40
Walther pps 40

Next Firearm:
Ak

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby jmicheals1984 » Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:23:47

So what are the laws regarding open carry of a handgun while in a vehicle? Does it have to be open in plain sight(Dashboard, front seat, etc) or does it have to be locked up in a trunk, unloaded, and in a case?


User avatar
jmicheals1984
Marksman
Marksman
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 23:00:14

My Arsenal:
Yugoslavian SKS M59/66
Mosin Nagant M91/30
No.4Ml1 Enfield
CZ-52
Nagant Revolver
Mossberg 152k

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby tursiops » Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:00:44

jmicheals1984 wrote:So what are the laws regarding open carry of a handgun while in a vehicle? Does it have to be open in plain sight(Dashboard, front seat, etc) or does it have to be locked up in a trunk, unloaded, and in a case?

Here is the law on concealed carry:
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM
There is no law on open carry, because the law is about what you cannot do, not about what you can do. You can open carry, you can put the gun on the seat beside you, so long as it is visible, or on the dash, or glue it to your head. It just has to be clearly visible. If you put it on the seat beside you and put your coat over it, it is concealed and is a no-no unless you have a CHP. Without a CHP, the only place you can hide it is in a secured container, like a latched glove box. Not the shelf under the steering wheel, not under the seat.

Nothing I said is legal opinion, it is my opinion. If you don't want an opinion, probably not a good idea to ask questions here!


National Rifle Association (NRA) Member   Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) Member  
User avatar
tursiops
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 446
Joined: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:09:29
First Name: yes

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby user » Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:01:18

The phrase, "readily accessible", is used as part of the definition of whether one has the gun in his possession. In order to be found guilty under 18.2-308, the Commonwealth has to prove that you actually had the gun in your possession, which only means that you were able to "exercise dominion and control" over it. If it is readily accessible, then it was constructively in your possession. And, if it was "hidden from common observation" at the time, that's a violation unless one of the statutory exceptions applies.
Nothing I say as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Legal questions should be presented to a competent attorney licensed to practice in the relevant state.
http://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com


User avatar
user
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:43:43
Location: Northern Piedmont & Mid-Nowhere, W.Va.
First Name: DLH

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby PeteyDoug » Thu, 08 Dec 2011 16:49:37

Okay, a much needed update. I had court earlier today and I was found guilty, sentenced to 30 days in jail(All Suspended), and a $100 fine. So I went ahead and appealed it. The judge looked confused and it was the prosecuter that pushed her to find me guilty. This was not what I was expecting and i'm quite frustrated with this ordeal. My court appointed lawyer will be there at the appeal but i'm thinking about taking another route. I might just write a letter to the Governor, and who knows from there on. I really want to be entitled to some sort of restitution, for being thrown in jail, found guilty, having my gun taken away, and running around to the courts.


User avatar
PeteyDoug
Sighting In
Sighting In
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 19:20:24

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby allingeneral » Thu, 08 Dec 2011 16:55:00

oh, man...that is not good! You really need to get a lawyer to help you appeal this decision! I'm sure we could scare up some funds to help pay for your defense. I don't know that we can get it all covered, but I'll start by kicking in $100.00!
Image


Active, Reserve or Veteran of the United States Navy   National Rifle Association (NRA) Member   Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) Member  
User avatar
allingeneral
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9230
Joined: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 17:38:25
Location: King George, Virginia
First Name: Rick

My Arsenal:
Ruger 10/22
S&W 4043 .40
Daly 1911 .45
Mossberg 500 12Ga
Rem 870 Super Mag
Ranger Youth 20Ga
Browning Buck Mark .22

Next Firearm:
Lever Action .357Mag

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby Chasbo00 » Thu, 08 Dec 2011 18:16:57

Were you represented by a lawyer present at this trial?
Competition is one of the "great levelers" of ego.


Active, Reserve or Veteran of the United States Army   National Rifle Association (NRA) Member   United States Practical Shooting Association (USPSA) Member   International Defensive Pistol Association (IDPA) Member   Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) Member  
User avatar
Chasbo00
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 1624
Joined: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 19:34:29
Location: Northern VA
First Name: Charlie

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby ProShooter » Thu, 08 Dec 2011 18:34:31

You need to appeal this, quickly.
Image

http://www.ProactiveShooters.com

NRA Certified Instructor
Utah State Certified Instructor
NRA Membership Recruiter
NRA RTBAV Instructor
NRA Chief RSO


"Make your gun go to work, and carry every day!"


National Rifle Association (NRA) Member   Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) Member  
User avatar
ProShooter
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 2021
Joined: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:46:51
Location: Richmond, Va.
First Name: Jim

My Arsenal:
Lost it all in a tragic boating accident.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby TenchCoxe » Fri, 09 Dec 2011 10:04:23

GET. A. LAWYER.
"[The swords of the militia], and every terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American."


User avatar
TenchCoxe
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:28:55
Location: Richmond, VA
First Name: Bill

My Arsenal:
Not as many as I would like.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby allingeneral » Sat, 10 Dec 2011 20:39:52

Petey (OP) did you receive my PM?
Image


Active, Reserve or Veteran of the United States Navy   National Rifle Association (NRA) Member   Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) Member  
User avatar
allingeneral
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9230
Joined: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 17:38:25
Location: King George, Virginia
First Name: Rick

My Arsenal:
Ruger 10/22
S&W 4043 .40
Daly 1911 .45
Mossberg 500 12Ga
Rem 870 Super Mag
Ranger Youth 20Ga
Browning Buck Mark .22

Next Firearm:
Lever Action .357Mag

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby rromeo » Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:31:08

Does Virginia not have an organization of gun savvy lawyers that defends ridiculous gun cases Pro Bono?
Never initiate force against another. But should someone do violence to you, retaliate without hesitation, without reservation, without quarter, until you are sure that he will never wish to harm - or never be capable of harming - you or yours again.KYFHO


Active, Reserve or Veteran of the United States Marine Corps   National Rifle Association (NRA) Member   Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) Member  
User avatar
rromeo
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Sun, 09 May 2010 20:54:59
Location: Radford
First Name: Rich

My Arsenal:
Quite a few

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby SHMIV » Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:39:27

rromeo wrote:Does Virginia not have an organization of gun savvy lawyers that defends ridiculous gun cases Pro Bono?


If one exists, it would be great to know about.

It seems to me that folks who would have to rely on court appointed counsel would be easy-pickin's for an anti-gun prosecutor.
"God Almighty created simplicity. Complexity, inspired by the Great Deceiver, tends to be the province of men. " S. H. M., IV

I'm an American-American


User avatar
SHMIV
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 3131
Joined: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 21:15:31
Location: Where ever I go, there I am.
First Name: H

My Arsenal:
A big ol' tank of a Cadillac and a right foot made of lead.

Next Firearm:
The one that appears at the right time and location.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby TenchCoxe » Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:48:07

Just because a lawyer is court-appointed doesn't mean he or she is a bumbling idiot or inept at presenting a vigorous defense.
"[The swords of the militia], and every terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American."


User avatar
TenchCoxe
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:28:55
Location: Richmond, VA
First Name: Bill

My Arsenal:
Not as many as I would like.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby SHMIV » Sat, 10 Dec 2011 22:02:03

TenchCoxe wrote:Just because a lawyer is court-appointed doesn't mean he or she is a bumbling idiot or inept at presenting a vigorous defense.


Oh, I'm well aware of that. But, it is a crap shoot. Lawyers are kind of chosen at random. I got a DUI several years ago; I lucked out on the random choosing. They literally snagged a guy that looked like a lawyer as he was passing by. They asked him if he was a lawyer, he said that he was, they asked if he had time to represent me, and he said that he did.

Turns out that he specialized in DUI cases.

So, the Good Lord was looking out for me, but, on the other hand, I also know people that would have been better off with representation from a french poodle.
"God Almighty created simplicity. Complexity, inspired by the Great Deceiver, tends to be the province of men. " S. H. M., IV

I'm an American-American


User avatar
SHMIV
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 3131
Joined: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 21:15:31
Location: Where ever I go, there I am.
First Name: H

My Arsenal:
A big ol' tank of a Cadillac and a right foot made of lead.

Next Firearm:
The one that appears at the right time and location.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby user » Sun, 11 Dec 2011 07:30:23

I invited the guy to call me, but no one has done so. Wtf, over?
Nothing I say as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Legal questions should be presented to a competent attorney licensed to practice in the relevant state.
http://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com


User avatar
user
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:43:43
Location: Northern Piedmont & Mid-Nowhere, W.Va.
First Name: DLH

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby wally626 » Sun, 11 Dec 2011 22:55:46

user wrote:I invited the guy to call me, but no one has done so. Wtf, over?


He is a college student who is in over his head, and has finals next week. Yes, he should call you but if he does not, hopefully the court appointed lawyer does OK.


User avatar
wally626
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:26:07
First Name: Wally

My Arsenal:
Glock 22

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby MWhiteDesigns » Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:32:41

Good Afternoon,
I am new to the scene. And am interested in this thread. Obviously there are different interpretations aof the word secured or contained and it can be intepreted differently.

As for the user's case of the firearm being in the Glove "Compartment", was the gun loose in the GC? Or was it holstered in the GC? Is the Gun being in a holster considered secured or being in a container. I believe a read somewhere that a holster is considered a secured container.

I currently do not have a concealed permit (I will be getting one shortly) howeverI in the meantime would like to OC with me. But where can i put it in my car? My holster is too big to fit in the GC. With that being said, can i keep it loaded and in a holster (in a container), can it be in the side door compartment? Or would that be considered concealed?


User avatar
MWhiteDesigns
Marksman
Marksman
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:24:22
Location: Ricmond, Virginia
First Name: Mark

My Arsenal:
-Sig Sauer P226 Enhanced Elite 9mm
-Sig Sauer M400

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby TenchCoxe » Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:59:22

MWhiteDesigns wrote:As for the user's case of the firearm being in the Glove "Compartment", was the gun loose in the GC? Or was it holstered in the GC? Is the Gun being in a holster considered secured or being in a container. I believe a read somewhere that a holster is considered a secured container.

I currently do not have a concealed permit (I will be getting one shortly) howeverI in the meantime would like to OC with me. But where can i put it in my car? My holster is too big to fit in the GC. With that being said, can i keep it loaded and in a holster (in a container), can it be in the side door compartment? Or would that be considered concealed?



Note that the statute says secured "in a compartment or container in a vehicle or vessel."

So it can be in a "compartment." I can't imagine how much more "secured in a compartment" you can get than in a closed, latched (but not necessarily locked) glove compartment, regardless of whether it's in a holster. Then it arguably would be in a container in a compartment.

I keep mine in the center console of my F150, which has a latching lid. But then again, I also have a CHP, so it doesn't really matter.

As to your second question, the whole point of the rule is that it allows you to carry a gun in a manner that would be considered concealed and would otherwise require a permit. So even if putting it in the door compartment would be considered "hidden from common observation" and therefore concealed, as long as it is considered "secured" in the compartment, then it's ok.

What we're still working on, and the courts have yet to define, is what does it mean to be "secured." I firmly believe it does not mean the compartment or container must be locked, but beyond that, there is no indication. My gut feel is that it means the compartment or container must be closed in some manner so that the gun is not flopping around, falling out, etc. Otherwise it's not "secured."
"[The swords of the militia], and every terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American."


User avatar
TenchCoxe
Sharp Shooter
Sharp Shooter
 
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 13:28:55
Location: Richmond, VA
First Name: Bill

My Arsenal:
Not as many as I would like.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

Postby PeteyDoug » Mon, 19 Dec 2011 15:11:33

I just wrapped up my semester so I'm now free to focus on my situation. I'm going to try to give user a call tomorrow and see where things go from there. Thanks for all the help guys!

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image


User avatar
PeteyDoug
Sighting In
Sighting In
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 19:20:24

PreviousNext


Return to Virginia Laws and Regulations

Who is online

Registered users: 03EX, 0ne5hot, Google [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, grumpyMSG, MarcSpaz, Yahoo [Bot]

Shop Here!
Help support VGOF!


AIG Tactical - Do it now!
Red Stitch Tactical