Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

I am coming from Florida where a CWP allows the carry of any knife or length: Balisongs, fixed blades, automatics.

Is there a restriction on Balisongs and blade length? How about automatics?

ah, the old knife quandry

I think zephyp knows a thing or two on this one. All I can say is that a VA CHP (and for purposes of FL reciprocity) only allows for concealment of a handgun, and does not include any other weapon that may be concealed.

Our CHP only permits handguns, knives are not included. However, our knife laws are too bad, but there are some expections. From the VA State Police website:

What are the laws concerning knives; specifically, the carrying of a non-concealed knife, and are there knife designs, blade sizes, etc., that are prohibited?
Virginia Code Section 18.2-311 describes certain weapons, including some knives, which are illegal to possess in Virginia. Additionally, refer to Virginia Code Section 18.2-308 for specific prohibitions concerning concealed weapons. It is suggested that you contact your county or city authorities to inquire as to whether or not there are applicable local ordinances.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-308

and

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-311

Important to know that simple possession of a auto/switchblade is prima facia evidence to violate VA statue: http://www.knifelawsonline.com/knifehom ... fault.aspx

Yup, none o them fancy switchblades and a limit on blade length, 3 3/4" if memory serves...plus lots of areas around NOVA is federal and I think the length limit is down somewhere around 2" for those places....

@zephyp I thought the "blade limit" was for state buildings like courthouses? Anyone remember the statue? Too lazy to search right now.

The issue of knives is very complex in VA, as said above the CPP does not cover weapons besides pistols. Also as stated above some particular types of knives are restricted either totally you cannot have them or as weapons. If they are just weapons you can carry them openly, but some things are totally banned, see Gunderwood's links for that information.

The courts have generally ruled that knives that are not weapons can be carried concealed, the definition of what makes a knife a weapon unfortunately tends to fall into the "I know it when I see it" territory. http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/ ... 074072.pdf has some good discussion of this issue as of 2009 in an Appeals Court Opinion.

The only length limit in VA is in the school laws which lists a length of 3-inches.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... 18.2-308.1

And no nun chucks either!

I did some research on this at one point because I wanted to carry some other weapon retention tool besides a second gun. You never know. I have one of those Ka-bar knives: http://www.amazon.com/KA-BAR-TDI-Law-En ... d_sim_sg_5
and it's right under 3". That seems to be the magic number. From what I understand though you can open carry most types of knives, the length is just for knives "hid from common observation". I've thought about carrying my bayonet sometimes...just because the sheath has a belt clip, and to feel like Crocodile Dundee "Now that's a knife..."

If it's a machete, straight-razor, dirk, bowie knife, ballistic knife, or switchblade, it's illegal to carry it concealed. The three -inch blade length limitation only applies on school property - and it also has to be a folding knife with a metal blade. No carrying any edged cutting tool into a courthouse.

Those specific kinds of knives are well defined, and if you go into a good, high-quality knife store, they'll be able to show you the specific characteristics of each. True that the general district courts tend to do a "I know it when I see it" analysis, but that's why God created expert witnesses, because judges generally don't know much about knives.

Where's the "NFA"?

Seriously, After reading those things? Our knife/bludgeon laws are antiquated, and out of date.

Really? Nunchaku are illegal?

When was the last "Drive by Nunchuckin' " reported on the news?

Reverenddel wrote:Where's the "NFA"?

Seriously, After reading those things? Our knife/bludgeon laws are antiquated, and out of date.

Really? Nunchaku are illegal?

When was the last "Drive by Nunchuckin' " reported on the news?

Too many kids were crackin' themselves in the head with those things, and of course only the govt can protect us from that...

Palladin wrote:

Reverenddel wrote:Where's the "NFA"?

Seriously, After reading those things? Our knife/bludgeon laws are antiquated, and out of date.

Really? Nunchaku are illegal?

When was the last "Drive by Nunchuckin' " reported on the news?

Too many kids were crackin' themselves in the head with those things, and of course only the govt can protect us from that...

Nah, I'm going with too many lawmakers watching Bruce Lee movies.

Still, I'm thinking I may try to push to have some of these silly laws repealed. It's ridiculous that I can walk around with a pistol tucked up under my shirt, but OH MAH GAWD! I HAVE A 3 1/2 INCH AUTO KNIFE ON ME!

Ridiculous.

Reverenddel wrote:Still, I'm thinking I may try to push to have some of these silly laws repealed. It's ridiculous that I can walk around with a pistol tucked up under my shirt, but OH MAH GAWD! I HAVE A 3 1/2 INCH AUTO KNIFE ON ME!

Ridiculous.

Laws against arms generally are ridiculous. It's a convoluted mess of an argument.

AGREED!

Soooo a google search, and away I go to find a group already working on this...

What about Balisong knives, AKA Butterfly knives?


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- Lifetime NRA Member

Illegal. Sorry.

The "brown shirt" legislation on weapons of most sorts is "You better run". Thank GOD for a SECOND AMENDMENT!

Where's the prohibition on balisongs? I'm not seeing it in the Code.

I've never handled one, but they look neat and I wouldn't mind having one.

If any person sells or barters, or exhibits for sale or for barter, or gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, or has in his possession, or under his control, with the intent of selling, bartering, giving or furnishing, any blackjack, brass or metal knucks, any disc of whatever configuration having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, or like weapons, such person shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. The having in one's possession of any such weapon shall be prima facie evidence, except in the case of a conservator of the peace, of his intent to sell, barter, give or furnish the same.

§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

Right, I was wondering where in there is the prohibition on balisongs. I'm not seeing it.

It falls into a "grey" area of interpretation of:

"or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection"

I still think the funniest thing was me carrying my 4" folding Cold Steel Tanto, and a RPD officer asking me "You have a permit for that?" and I replied, "No, but I do for the 9mm Glock at the small of my back".

She laughed, and waved me off saying "Go 'on!"

AND that's where it becomes an issue with me! I can legally carry a GUN! A LETHAL WEAPON! BUT! I cannot carry a KNIFE!? I use a knife DAILY! BIG DIFFERENCE!