Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

by **WRW** » Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:02:38

gunderwood wrote:I'm not a fan of anyone using dogs to hunt deer.

I didn't even know about it till the third time I moved to Va. I can't say I'm a fan of it, but folks have been doing it since Hector was a pup.

user · by **user** » Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:09:56

kulprit wrote:
user wrote:1) The crime of brandishing a firearm is not limited to public places - you can be found guilty of that offense if you're doing it in your own bedroom. The essense of the offense is coercion or intimidation (e.g., "Get off my land!")

That's not entirely correct. The person doing the brandishing has to instill ACTUAL APPRENSION in the threatened person. Much to my amazement, I lost a case this past August because the victim stated that the woman pointing the loaded pistol to her face "angered" her, but that she didn't feel threatened or scared. So the rule is not whether the brandisher intended to intimidate the victim, it's whether the victim actually felt intimidated. ...

Respectfully, sir, that's hogwash. The statute requires an objective test, the subjective reaction of the "victim" is irrelevant. The question is whether the behavior is such that a person would likely be intimidated or coerced, because of the threat. Note that it doesn't require that you actually have a gun, either, as long as you do something that would suggest to the average objective observer that you do (e.g., the finger poking from within the jacket pocket). But whether the complainant was actually afraid, intimidated, or coerced has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal offense. I can't help wondering what county or city that case occurred in, and who the GDC judge was.

user · by **user** » Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:14:47

CCFan wrote:
user wrote:1) The crime of brandishing a firearm is not limited to public places - you can be found guilty of that offense if you're doing it in your own bedroom. The essense of the offense is coercion or intimidation (e.g., "Get off my land!")

Care to expound on this?

VA Code 18.2-282: Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

Therefore if proven that this supposed infraction occurs on ones own private property it is not in a public place, ergo, code 18.2-282 is invalid?

I know all cases are different and the merits of each case are weighed on their own - but this law is worded pretty specifically...

Good point, I'd missed that, too. I wonder if you'd like to volunteer as a researcher and proofreader on a case-by-case basis?

Btw, the phrase, "public place" generally means a place open to, or even visible to, the public. So you can be arrested for "drunk in public" when you're on your front porch.

user · by **user** » Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:21:37

WRW wrote:
CCFan wrote:...
VA Code 18.2-282: Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to (point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon) in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. ....

"It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another..."

Point hold or brandish anywhere OR just hold in public.

I inserted parentheses around the underlined part to illustrate how I read it - if there is any ambiguity at all, the statute has to be construed strictly against the state and in favor of the citizen who is standing trial.

by **WRW** » Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:57:05

user: Why the reiteration of "hold" in your interpretation?

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