Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Newbie Response here....

a. Taking the NRA CCW/Basic Pistol course next week;
b. Been around firearms since about age 9 (Boy Scouts, Military School had full range under gym - that is before the movie "Taps" came out - so dating myself a bit here).
c. have run no less than 50rds each week through the new SIG at the range to move proficiency to where I am comfortable and secure in my personal ability to put a round exactly where I want it to go - and not harm beyond scope or line of sight.
d. cannot see how an on-line course will benefit the "media-generation" who are now attempting to "modernize" an old-fashion methodology. In other words, you can help/teach me to program my cellphone, DVR, or GPS via online instruction - however, bullets and the damage they can inflict have been around a lot longer. This ain't whatever popular video-game is now available where you can hit "reset" if you muck-up.
e. online course WITH some required RANGE time is exactly what is needed; not farming out of one or the other.
f. (comment is not course specfic here) however, I have been at the Range (Maryland, near Andrews, withholding name here), and have needed to ask the staff to move me away from folks who have NOT had proper firearm training, who were behaving irresponsibly in a controlled situation such as the lane - imagine what they would be doing with a CCW/CHP.
g. believe that "renewals" of CCW/CHP's can be done successfully and responsibly over the internet; however initial applications should have some form of "real-time" experience/testing before issue.

... just my $.02 - I made the mistake and got a cup of coffee at Starbuck and that was all the change I had leftover...

jadedone4, I think you summed it up perfectly. The online course has its pros and cons, but in the end the users of this forum and those contributing to educating people about guns will hopefully make a difference. In fact, someone uneducated about guns or the laws might start looking here; that is, this site is a pre-online course.
In my inexperienced opinion, I would suggest people take the course in person. Continue to make CHP holders the most law abiding citizens around.
Either way, I am glad to be a part of this site and hope to soon be a CHP holder in VA.

I could post on both sides of the issue on this one.
On one hand the online certification of competency for a CHP is purely a matter of convienience for those wanting to concealed carry...save the time and money and take the course online, fill out the appropriate paperwork and carry it down to your local courthouse. OR, do the research, find an in-person class, make time to attend the class (an excuse to go shooting! who wouldn't want to go?), then fill out the appropriate paperwork and carry it down to your local courthouse.

Pro: I need to get my wife her CHP...simply by virtue of having been around me, she is more than familiar with gun safety and has been to the range with me on several occasions and is also aware of current gun laws just from having listened to me rant and rave on numerous occasions. However, she's had no formal documented training to show her compentence. Without that formal documentation, she's ineligable to apply for her CHP. An online course is the perfect answer.

Con: One of the kids I work with wants to get a handgun and CHP. He's never fired a bb gun, much less a firearm...hell, he'd never seen a handgun in person other than carried by police until he started working with me. The thought of this kid being able to go online (with or without his buddies and/or Google to help him brainstorm the correct answers) and use that as proof that he's familiar enough with his weapon and the applicable laws and responsibilities of gun ownership and carry frankly scares the crap outta me.

Now it's a matter of calculating the risk vs the convienience factor...........I don't think I really need to go into that mire. We're all aware of the risks.

Unfortunately I'm running shy on time and there's some interesting weather moving in, so I'll have to come back to this after I get home from work tonight



Shawn

shulatt wrote:Con: One of the kids I work with wants to get a handgun and CHP. He's never fired a bb gun, much less a firearm...hell, he'd never seen a handgun in person other than carried by police until he started working with me. The thought of this kid being able to go online (with or without his buddies and/or Google to help him brainstorm the correct answers) and use that as proof that he's familiar enough with his weapon and the applicable laws and responsibilities of gun ownership and carry frankly scares the crap outta me.

Shulatt, you should ask that kid if he wants to go shooting with you. Show him the proper way. Being with someone familiar with guns is what he needs if he is seriously considering carrying. Safety first.

baz wrote:

shulatt wrote:Con: One of the kids I work with wants to get a handgun and CHP. He's never fired a bb gun, much less a firearm...hell, he'd never seen a handgun in person other than carried by police until he started working with me. The thought of this kid being able to go online (with or without his buddies and/or Google to help him brainstorm the correct answers) and use that as proof that he's familiar enough with his weapon and the applicable laws and responsibilities of gun ownership and carry frankly scares the crap outta me.

Shulatt, you should ask that kid if he wants to go shooting with you. Show him the proper way. Being with someone familiar with guns is what he needs if he is seriously considering carrying. Safety first.

I've already extended the offer to him. Now if I can get a night off work that the wife doesn't have a "honey do" list for me the length of my arm and which he also happens to not be working and one of the ranges nearby is open, we'll make it happen.
But the example was to illustrate the point of an online "course" being admissable as sufficient proof of proficiency and knowledge to allow someone to carry concealed.
This particular kid happens to know someone willing to take the time to show him the basics and give him some direction to get even more information. How many of them don't and will use the online class as a surrogate?

Howdy, Y'all

Maybe a little late, but I thought it might be handy to post the applicable section of the Code of Virginia:

G. The court shall require proof that the applicant has demonstrated competence with a handgun and the applicant may demonstrate such competence by one of the following, but no applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence, nor shall any proof of demonstrated competence expire:

1. Completing any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state;

2. Completing any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;

3. Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services;

4. Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;

5. Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;

6. Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in the Commonwealth or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause;

7. Completing any firearms training or safety course or class, including an electronic, video, or on-line course, conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor;

8. Completing any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualifying to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties; or

9. Completing any other firearms training which the court deems adequate.

A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes; an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught such course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant; or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall constitute evidence of qualification under this subsection.

Regards,

George

Thanks for that post, George.

Here also, is a link to the actual Virginia Code. Scroll down to Para G for the section posted above.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-308

shulatt wrote:I've already extended the offer to him...
But the example was to illustrate the point of an online "course" being admissable as sufficient proof of proficiency and knowledge to allow someone to carry concealed.

I am not denying your point as it is quite valid. I see your point, and you are right. I just made the suggestion to help him out so that he realizes how serious of a matter CHP really is.

I used the online safety course to obtain my CHP and personally I do not see the difference in that and half of the options listed above. The emphasis on all of the options above is on safety training, a hunters safety course is not going to teach me any more about handgun safety than the online course (which by the way is only on handgun safety). So I do not see where that one is any better than an online course.

I could have spent the last 20 yrs as a mess crank in the Navy and not touched a firearm since boot camp, but all I have to do is show an Honorable Discharge, again, no better than the online course in my opinion.

No where in the above requirements does it mention a knowledge of the current handgun laws. Do I think its a good idea? Yes! But, as a CHP holder it is up to me to get that information and to become proficient with my handgun. Sounds like some of you fella's want to go back to a "may issue" state (nothing personal).

I have been using rifles and shotguns since I was 10 and have owned and used handguns for the last 30 years. I used the online course because it was convenient and meet my needs as well as the requirements of the State. And as long as it does so I will encourage others to do the same, as well as spend some time on the range and learn how to use their handgun.

GrayGhost wrote:I could have spent the last 20 yrs as a mess crank in the Navy and not touched a firearm since boot camp, but all I have to do is show an Honorable Discharge, again, no better than the online course in my opinion.

Hey, it's 4am Crank! Get outta bed, you got work to do!

20 years as a mess crank? I think maybe you'd hit High-Year Tenure by then, eh?

I know - just proving a point - I understand. Just wanted to poke at the Mess Crank thing...I have fond memories of my time "Cranking" in boot camp and on the ship.

Carrying a weapon is a serious responsibility whether its open or concealed. As we all know, there arent any prerequisites for open carry. If we place requirements for concealed why not open too? The only real difference is how you can carry. Yes, I know there are others, but you know what I mean. I am of the opinion that as long as the feds stay completely out of 2A issues and the states do not "infringe" then we should be happy. The only problem is how do you define infringe. There are many differing opinions on that.

I have always gone by this rule: once you pull the trigger ,you can;t take it back! Be sure of your training and be sure of your self, You can be your own best freind or your own worst enemy,, I prefer to be a friend and see to it that the work required is done first!

VBshooter wrote:I have always gone by this rule: once you pull the trigger ,you can;t take it back! Be sure of your training and be sure of your self, You can be your own best freind or your own worst enemy,, I prefer to be a friend and see to it that the work required is done first!

I had to go to Alabama earlier this month. My nephew shot himself - a real tragedy. After we buried him, his father handed me a .40 cartridge and told me that one was next in the mag. He said exactly the same thing. A lot more to carrying a gun than being able to put one in the bullseye. No matter the requirements levied by the state - or not - the onus is on us.

zephyp wrote:I had to go to Alabama earlier this month. My nephew shot himself - a real tragedy. After we buried him, his father handed me a .40 cartridge and told me that one was next in the mag. He said exactly the same thing. A lot more to carrying a gun than being able to put one in the bullseye. No matter the requirements levied by the state - or not - the onus is on us.

My condolences; I am utterly sorry to hear that. My prayers will go out for your family.

Thanks, baz. I appreciate that.

Oh, my. Sorry to hear about that DK. Condolences to you and yours.

My condolences DK ,, Never easy to bury a relative,a brother or a friend.

Sorry to hear of your loss, DK. Prayers sent as well.

Thanks, all. I sincerely appreciate your kind words. It certainly left a mark on me.

My thoughts are with you and your family DK.