Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

by **emfneal08** » Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:50:10

Hey everyone
My name is Eddie and I'm new around here and have a few legal questions, please forgive my ignorance.

First off, I am 20 years of age and reside in VA and just recently purchased a Taurus PT 1911 .45 ACP from a private seller and just wanted to make sure it was a legal transaction for him to sell it to me being that I am under the age of 21. The pistol was originally registered in his name and still is.

Second I would like to know if I can legally carry my pistol in my vehicle in the passenger seat UNLOADED completely visible with the magazine out laying beside it with active rounds loaded into the magazine, I do not have a concealed weapon permit in the state of VA yet being that I would have to be 21 to apply for one. I would also like to know about rifles/shotguns in the same manner of being unloaded and in the seat beside me because I do a lot of hunting and continueously carry my rifle and/or shotgun in my vehicle almost on a day to day basis.

Thanks!-Eddie

by **moss20** » Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:09:05

Welcome

I keep a 20 ga. shotgun in the gun rack of my pick-up all the time. Followed by county and state LEO's all the time with no problems. Va. is an open carry state, not sure about the age limit for carrying handguns, but rifle/shotgun is o.k.

You will get more detailed answers from other members here that know the laws better than I do for your situation.

by **OakRidgeStars** » Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:58:46

Welcome to VGOF, Eddie :welcome:

First, in regards to your handgun purchase, your age is sufficient as you are over the age of eighteen. You can also open carry a handgun. You cannot apply for a concealed handgun permit until age 21, so concealing your handgun is out of the question.
Also, there is no registration requirement in Virginia for handguns and long guns.

As far as open carrying in a vehicle, start by reading this thread in it's entirety.

carrying/carrying-vehicle-t2400.html

If you plan to carry your handgun unloaded, then my recommendation would be to keep it in a container, out of your reach from the driver's seat. If you are driving a car, keep it in the trunk. If you're driving a pickup or SUV, keep it in the furthest point in the rear of the vehicle. Once you turn 21, apply for a CHP.
Then you can keep it anywhere you want, which will probably be on your person, in the center console or under the seat.

by **ProShooter** » Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:10:56

emfneal08 wrote:Hey everyone

First off, I am 20 years of age and reside in VA and just recently purchased a Taurus PT 1911 .45 ACP from a private seller and just wanted to make sure it was a legal transaction for him to sell it to me being that I am under the age of 21 (Yes) The pistol was originally registered in his name and still is. (No such thing as handgun registration in Va.)

Second I would like to know if I can legally carry my pistol in my vehicle in the passenger seat UNLOADED completely visible with the magazine out laying beside it with active rounds loaded into the magazine (Yes or you can openly carry it loaded), I do not have a concealed weapon permit in the state of VA yet being that I would have to be 21 to apply for one.

by **emfneal08** » Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:06:46

Thanks for the responses guys. The problem I have is I drive a single cab pickup truck and I do not have a back seat/trunk or tool box in my bed so I don't have anywhere to put my pistol/rifles except for behind my seat and that would be considered concealed unless they are in a proper gun container.

I would rather be able to openly carry my pistol and keep it loaded or with a loaded mag beside it in the seat next to me. I work in a bad part of town and work 2nd and 3rd shift so I always carry my pistol with me to and inside of work(I work alone and my boss has no problem with me carrying) and if ProShooter sais I can openly carry loaded that works for me as long as I keep it in plain sight. As far as a CHP goes, I will definently be applying for one in the next 4 months as soon as my birthday comes around. Thanks again guys! -Eddie :thumbsup:

by **zephyp** » Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:31:21

emfneal08 wrote:Thanks for the responses guys. The problem I have is I drive a single cab pickup truck and I do not have a back seat/trunk or tool box in my bed so I don't have anywhere to put my pistol/rifles except for behind my seat and that would be considered concealed unless they are in a proper gun container.

I would rather be able to openly carry my pistol and keep it loaded or with a loaded mag beside it in the seat next to me. I work in a bad part of town and work 2nd and 3rd shift so I always carry my pistol with me to and inside of work(I work alone and my boss has no problem with me carrying) and if ProShooter sais I can openly carry loaded that works for me as long as I keep it in plain sight. As far as a CHP goes, I will definently be applying for one in the next 4 months as soon as my birthday comes around. Thanks again guys! -Eddie

Remember that a "proper gun container" for transport here in VA can be as simple as a zip case. As long as the weapon is unloaded, cased and separated from the ammo you're ok. To be safe, put the weapon in a zip case behind the seat unloaded. Put your mags in the glove compartment. IANAL but that should be fine for you in your pick up.

by **Bewaffnet** » Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:24:42

I'm a little confused about some of the previous posts. A lot is being said about unloading the gun. I always understood that, under the law, a gun is a gun and that its loaded/unloaded condition is immaterial.

So long as one is permitted to possess a handgun an openly carry it, what's the fuss about it's being loaded or not?

Just trying to understand.

by **ProShooter** » Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:37:39

Bewaffnet wrote:I'm a little confused about some of the previous posts. A lot is being said about unloading the gun. I always understood that, under the law, a gun is a gun and that its loaded/unloaded condition is immaterial.

So long as one is permitted to possess a handgun an openly carry it, what's the fuss about it's being loaded or not?

Just trying to understand.

If you are carrying the gun, loaded/unloaded is immaterial.

If you are transporting the gun, like in your trunk, through another state, it needs to be unloaded

by **wally626** » Sun, 27 Dec 2009 16:25:28

If the handgun is concealed, and you do not have a permit, then it has to be unloaded, cased and out of reach. If the handgun is in the open, then it does not matter if it is loaded or unloaded or if you have a permit as long as you are 18 or older.

by **zephyp** » Sun, 27 Dec 2009 16:54:02

wally626 wrote:If the handgun is concealed, and you do not have a permit, then it has to be unloaded, cased and out of reach. If the handgun is in the open, then it does not matter if it is loaded or unloaded or if you have a permit as long as you are 18 or older.

by **GS78** » Sun, 27 Dec 2009 22:30:42

Better yet, always use your seatbelt and turn signals and don't talk on your cell phone while driving unless you have that star trek looking thing on your chin .....and you won't get pulled over in the first place. DId I mention obey the speed limit, all traffic laws, and hope they don't pick up am image of your sidearm on one of those surveillance cameras..?... you know what? I think they are trying to make it more of a pain in the ass to discourage some people...... :whistle:

by **GS78** » Sun, 27 Dec 2009 23:12:45

GS78 wrote:Better yet, always use your seatbelt and turn signals and don't talk on your cell phone while driving unless you have that star trek looking thing on your chin .....and you won't get pulled over in the first place. DId I mention obey the speed limit, all traffic laws, and hope they don't pick up am image of your sidearm on one of those surveillance cameras..?... you know what? I think they are trying to make it more of a pain in the ass to discourage some people......

I'm only goofin around, do exactly what you are doing, find out the law and obey it and you'll be fine.

by **Flavet** » Mon, 28 Dec 2009 12:35:56

"The pistol was originally registered in his name and still is." In what state is it registered. Just being nosy. It isn't in Virginia.

by **Bewaffnet** » Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:12:54

ProShooter wrote:If you are carrying the gun, loaded/unloaded is immaterial.

If you are transporting the gun, like in your trunk, through another state, it needs to be unloaded

wally626 wrote:If the handgun is concealed, and you do not have a permit, then it has to be unloaded, cased and out of reach. If the handgun is in the open, then it does not matter if it is loaded or unloaded or if you have a permit as long as you are 18 or older.

I get it now. Thanks for the clarifications.

by **emfneal08** » Mon, 04 Jan 2010 18:40:52

Flavet wrote:"The pistol was originally registered in his name and still is." In what state is it registered. Just being nosy. It isn't in Virginia.

Well since I found out there is no registration in VA then I guess it isn't registered. I meant that he bought it from a local dealer here in VA and had to fill out the regular paper work and what not to purchase it. Me being 20 I thought the reason behind not being able to legally buy a pistol from a dealer meant that the pistol would be registered in my name once I turned 21.

I'm probably confusing you guys more than anything lol just my ignorance! Thanks again for all the info fellas! :clap:

by **lifeisweird** » Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:27:04

This may be unrelated but I noticed you live in Danville. I also live there and was wondering what places have you open carried in and if any private places you have been to that prohibited it for example Wal-Mart, Mall, Fool Lion(not sure if they do just wondering).

by **gunderwood** » Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:33:01

Yes, you can purchase a handgun from a private seller so long as you and the seller meet normal private firearm transaction laws. E.g. over 18, both legal residents, not felons, etc. Federal law doesn't allow you to purchase handgun ammo, but nothing stops you from possessing it. If you're a law abiding citizen, the solution is self-evident.

Yes, you can open carry a loaded handgun in VA once you are 18. Loaded rifles may still fall under the "hunting" regulations of particular counties, etc. Generally, I would recommend you not carry a loaded rifle as it is quite a mix of laws and you don't want to get screwed on a technicality. However, it can be done.

If you decide to open carry before your 21 (and even after depending on the county), I recommend you read up on what rights you have, what to do if you are arrested, etc. I personally know someone who was legally open carrying post 18, pre 21, and pulled over for a minor traffic violation. The LEA illegally searched, detained/arrested (said he was under arrest, but refused to read him his rights, etc.), went to jail, etc. Bottom line, they let him go with no charges after harassing him for several hours. They claimed they misread the code as 21 vice 18...the code literally is numerals and I don't understand how you misread the numeral 18 as 21 for several hours. :roll:

Bottom line is they knew they could get away with it because he was not following the next paragraph. If you open carry enough, it will happen to you.

Some LE are excellent and truly a value to the community and others, well, you get the idea. Know your rights and as soon as you have meet you legal obligations (depends on the situation), SHUT UP. Nothing you say can help you, don't forget that. If you don't know your rights and demand them multiple times, the courts have decided you don't really want them. Sad, but true. The police can lie to you, they can do almost anything and get away with it, until you quit cooperating (not resisting!) and demand your rights. Sometimes we have to learn these lessons the hard way. My friend got off easy, you may not...

Edit: Find a copy of You and the Police and Arrest Proof Yourself.

by **zephyp** » Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:05:44

gunderwood wrote:Some LE are excellent and truly a value to the community and others, well, you get the idea. Know your rights and as soon as you have meet you legal obligations (depends on the situation), SHUT UP. Nothing you say can help you, don't forget that. If you don't know your rights and demand them multiple times, the courts have decided you don't really want them. Sad, but true. The police can lie to you, they can do almost anything and get away with it, until you quit cooperating (not resisting!) and demand your rights. Sometimes we have to learn these lessons the hard way. My friend got off easy, you may not...

Edit: Find a copy of You and the Police and Arrest Proof Yourself.

Shutting up should come after you make sure you tell them you do not consent to search of your person or vehicle. If they pull you from your vehicle and search everything while you keep quiet they will use that as consent.

Along with being quiet until you get counsel its also a very wise idea to "submit" even if you know they are violating the law or your rights. If you resist based on that then you are wrong and they have you snared. Keep quiet and go along with them. Ask for an attorney.

Remember that even a "casual conversation" can and will be used against you....

by **gunderwood** » Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:46:31

zephyp wrote:
gunderwood wrote:Some LE are excellent and truly a value to the community and others, well, you get the idea. Know your rights and as soon as you have meet you legal obligations (depends on the situation), SHUT UP. Nothing you say can help you, don't forget that. If you don't know your rights and demand them multiple times, the courts have decided you don't really want them. Sad, but true. The police can lie to you, they can do almost anything and get away with it, until you quit cooperating (not resisting!) and demand your rights. Sometimes we have to learn these lessons the hard way. My friend got off easy, you may not...

Edit: Find a copy of You and the Police and Arrest Proof Yourself.

Shutting up should come after you make sure you tell them you do not consent to search of your person or vehicle. If they pull you from your vehicle and search everything while you keep quiet they will use that as consent.

Along with being quiet until you get counsel its also a very wise idea to "submit" even if you know they are violating the law or your rights. If you resist based on that then you are wrong and they have you snared. Keep quiet and go along with them. Ask for an attorney.

Remember that even a "casual conversation" can and will be used against you....

Exactly. What questions you are obligated to answer depends a lot on the situation. Where you driving, walking, etc. It also depends on State law. E.g. some States require you to inform LE that you are carrying, some don't.

by **ProShooter** » Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:06:30

gunderwood wrote:said he was under arrest, but refused to read him his rights

You can be arrested without having your rights read to you.....depends on the situation.

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