Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

by **mrjam2jab** » Tue, 28 Dec 2010 21:52:56

I've heard it said that under the new law:

J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer.

says that you can not conceal but you can OC.

But how does that section work with:

J1. Any person permitted to carry a concealed handgun, who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such handgun in a public place, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. Conviction of any of the following offenses shall be prima facie evidence, subject to rebuttal, that the person is "under the influence" for purposes of this section: manslaughter in violation of § 18.2-36.1, maiming in violation of § 18.2-51.4, driving while intoxicated in violation of § 18.2-266, public intoxication in violation of § 18.2-388, or driving while intoxicated in violation of § 46.2-341.24. Upon such conviction that court shall revoke the person's permit for a concealed handgun and promptly notify the issuing circuit court. A person convicted of a violation of this subsection shall be ineligible to apply for a concealed handgun permit for a period of five years.

by **grumpyMSG** » Tue, 28 Dec 2010 23:11:33

J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer.

Says you can't consume alcohol while carrying a firearm.

J1. Any person permitted to carry a concealed handgun, who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such handgun in a public place, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. Conviction of any of the following offenses shall be prima facie evidence, subject to rebuttal, that the person is "under the influence" for purposes of this section: manslaughter in violation of § 18.2-36.1, maiming in violation of § 18.2-51.4, driving while intoxicated in violation of § 18.2-266, public intoxication in violation of § 18.2-388, or driving while intoxicated in violation of § 46.2-341.24. Upon such conviction that court shall revoke the person's permit for a concealed handgun and promptly notify the issuing circuit court. A person convicted of a violation of this subsection shall be ineligible to apply for a concealed handgun permit for a period of five years.

Is about being drunk or under the influence while carrying a firearm, it also covers all public places not just bars or restaurants.

by **wally626** » Tue, 28 Dec 2010 23:13:10

You can drink in a restaurant if you open carry you but cannot become intoxicated, not being intoxicated applies to any public place whether concealed or open carrying not just restaurants. I do not know what standards the state uses for establishing the level required for public drunkenness or intoxication. Perhaps it is similar to those used for driving.

by **mrjam2jab** » Tue, 28 Dec 2010 23:43:37

grumpyMSG wrote:Says you can't consume alcohol while carrying a firearm.

Is about being drunk or under the influence while carrying a firearm, it also covers all public places not just bars or restaurants.

It says you can't consume alcohol while carrying a firearm CONCEALED.

wally626 wrote:You can drink in a restaurant if you open carry you but cannot become intoxicated, not being intoxicated applies to any public place whether concealed or open carrying not just restaurants. I do not know what standards the state uses for establishing the level required for public drunkenness or intoxication. Perhaps it is similar to those used for driving.

J1. Any person permitted to carry a concealed handgun, who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such handgun in a public place, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. Conviction of any of the following offenses shall be prima facie evidence, subject to rebuttal, that the person is "under the influence" for purposes of this section: , public intoxication in violation of § 18.2-388, .

Doesn't help either...

§ 18.2-388. Profane swearing and intoxication in public; penalty; transportation of public inebriates to detoxification center.

If any person profanely curses or swears or is intoxicated in public, whether such intoxication results from alcohol, narcotic drug or other intoxicant or drug of whatever nature, he shall be deemed guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. In any area in which there is located a court-approved detoxification center a law-enforcement officer may authorize the transportation, by police or otherwise, of public inebriates to such detoxification center in lieu of arrest; however, no person shall be involuntarily detained in such center.

by **Yarddawg** » Wed, 29 Dec 2010 08:33:29

From the Code of Virginia 4.1-100

"Intoxicated" means a condition in which a person has drunk enough alcoholic beverages to observably affect his manner, disposition, speech, muscular movement, general appearance or behavior.

Rather broad, isn't it.

by **wally626** » Wed, 29 Dec 2010 18:16:34

What was the question again?

It is illegal to conceal and drink alcohol on the premises of a restaurant that serves alcohol, it is illegal to be intoxicated while carrying a handgun on public property if you have a concealed weapon permit. It is not clear to me if the handgun would have to be concealed or just simply carried.

My initial reading was it was illegal for anyone to carry while intoxicated in public but a simple reading of the law may imply you could carry a handgun while intoxicated if it was not concealed and you did not have a permit.

by **mrjam2jab** » Wed, 29 Dec 2010 19:48:20

wally626 wrote:What was the question again?

It is illegal to conceal and drink alcohol on the premises of a restaurant that serves alcohol, it is illegal to be intoxicated while carrying a handgun on public property if you have a concealed weapon permit. It is not clear to me if the handgun would have to be concealed or just simply carried.

My initial reading was it was illegal for anyone to carry while intoxicated in public but a simple reading of the law may imply you could carry a handgun while intoxicated if it was not concealed and you did not have a permit.

I guess my simpler question would be .... is it legal to consume..say a single beer with your pizza...while OC?

My reading of the law says you can.

The law specifically says you can't conceal while you drink.

I'm in a thread in another forum and a poster says "Even with the repeal, you aren't allowed to drink adult beverages while armed."

I just know that if I ask him to cite his words he will present J1...and my response back to that would be?

by **allingeneral** » Wed, 29 Dec 2010 21:33:24

I know a guy who was served with a summons (personal recognizance) for drinking a beer while open carrying. When he went to court, the Commonwealth Attorney dropped the charge and then helped with expungment paperwork to get the arrest cleared from his record.

In other words, the cop was being overzealous and wrote a summons for violation of 18.2-308.J and was incorrect in doing so.

So, from a legal standpoint, you can drink one beer while open carrying, but I wouldn't suggest it...you're just begging for police involvement in doing so. Some "concerned citizen" is going to complain and the police will be called. Take your chances and hope the responding officer isn't a fool? No, thank you.

It is illegal to drink alcohol while carrying concealed.

by **zephyp** » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 05:07:53

wally626 wrote:What was the question again?

It is illegal to conceal and drink alcohol on the premises of a restaurant that serves alcohol, it is illegal to be intoxicated while carrying a handgun on public property if you have a concealed weapon permit. It is not clear to me if the handgun would have to be concealed or just simply carried.

My initial reading was it was illegal for anyone to carry while intoxicated in public but a simple reading of the law may imply you could carry a handgun while intoxicated if it was not concealed and you did not have a permit.

Under the new law effective this past July you may carry concealed in establishments that serve alcohol but you may not drink...unless you are someone special like a DA or retired LEO...that needs to be fixed...

by **VBshooter** » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 10:45:56

Zephyp wrote:

Under the new law effective this past July you may carry concealed in establishments that serve alcohol but you may not drink...unless you are someone special like a DA or retired LEO...that needs to be fixed...

Definitely need to correct this privelidge difference, Anyone hear what VCDL is pursuing this year??

by **SgtBill** » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 12:12:13

zephyp wrote:
wally626 wrote:What was the question again?

It is illegal to conceal and drink alcohol on the premises of a restaurant that serves alcohol, it is illegal to be intoxicated while carrying a handgun on public property if you have a concealed weapon permit. It is not clear to me if the handgun would have to be concealed or just simply carried.

My initial reading was it was illegal for anyone to carry while intoxicated in public but a simple reading of the law may imply you could carry a handgun while intoxicated if it was not concealed and you did not have a permit.

Under the new law effective this past July you may carry concealed in establishments that serve alcohol but you may not drink...unless you are someone special like a DA or retired LEO...that needs to be fixed...

Gee, and I am a retired LEO and I don't drink.
LOL Bill :clap:

by **wally626** » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 13:28:23

VBshooter wrote:Zephyp wrote:
Under the new law effective this past July you may carry concealed in establishments that serve alcohol but you may not drink...unless you are someone special like a DA or retired LEO...that needs to be fixed...

Definitely need to correct this privelidge difference, Anyone hear what VCDL is pursuing this year??

I believe the VCDL was going to push two bills one that removed the restaurant provision entirely and one that removed the ability of anyone to conceal carry and drink in a restaurant except on-duty police.

by **ProShooter** » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 15:22:48

VBshooter wrote:Anyone hear what VCDL is pursuing this year??

I know one of the things that the VCDL will be asking for...

I asked the VCDL to push for an exemption to 18.2-308 that allows for someone to carry concealed w/o a permit if they are attending a firearms training/safety class. From what I understand, someone from NOVA is going to introduce the bill. I think that it will swim through unscathed.

by **jsmithusaf89** » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 15:45:54

Drinking and carrying? Not a good idea any day. Even if, at best, you had to pull and brandish you're a criminal. Why? Because you knowly consumed while carrying and that shows intent. It's pure bullsh**t. I wouldn't want Joe Morrisey at trial on something like that. :whistle:

by **gunderwood** » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:16:38

ProShooter wrote:
VBshooter wrote:Anyone hear what VCDL is pursuing this year??

I know one of the things that the VCDL will be asking for...

I asked the VCDL to push for an exemption to 18.2-308 that allows for someone to carry concealed w/o a permit if they are attending a firearms training/safety class. From what I understand, someone from NOVA is going to introduce the bill. I think that it will swim through unscathed.

How does this help? Wouldn't that be private property and state law is irrelevant?

by **gunderwood** » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:20:39

jsmithusaf89 wrote:Drinking and carrying?

I wanted to point out that there are millions of households with guns and alcohol is consumed there too. Most with no issue at all. The issue at hand is not the alcohol, nor is it the firearm...it's the person.

by **Yarddawg** » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:25:16

gunderwood wrote:
jsmithusaf89 wrote:Drinking and carrying?

I wanted to point out that there are millions of households with guns and alcohol is consumed there too. Most with no issue at all. The issue at hand is not the alcohol, nor is it the firearm...it's the person.

+1 All the laws in the world can't fix stupid!

by **mrjam2jab** » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:50:54

wally626 wrote:
I believe the VCDL was going to push two bills one that removed the restaurant provision entirely and one that removed the ability of anyone to conceal carry and drink in a restaurant except on-duty police.

ummm.....anyone else see something wrong with the above?

by **VBshooter** » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 17:02:27

Yup I don't think we want on duty cops drinking :whistle:

by **gunderwood** » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 17:03:52

mrjam2jab wrote:
wally626 wrote:
I believe the VCDL was going to push two bills one that removed the restaurant provision entirely and one that removed the ability of anyone to conceal carry and drink in a restaurant except on-duty police.

ummm.....anyone else see something wrong with the above?

The fact that we don't have any establishments which serve alcohol besides restaurants or that on-duty officers shouldn't be drinking anyways?

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