Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

gunderwood wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

VBshooter wrote:Anyone hear what VCDL is pursuing this year??

I know one of the things that the VCDL will be asking for...

I asked the VCDL to push for an exemption to 18.2-308 that allows for someone to carry concealed w/o a permit if they are attending a firearms training/safety class. From what I understand, someone from NOVA is going to introduce the bill. I think that it will swim through unscathed.

How does this help? Wouldn't that be private property and state law is irrelevant?

State law would apply during the course of the journey, and in public places like hotels, stores, etc. It would be very helpful, actually.

gunderwood wrote:

jsmithusaf89 wrote:Drinking and carrying?

I wanted to point out that there are millions of households with guns and alcohol is consumed there too. Most with no issue at all. The issue at hand is not the alcohol, nor is it the firearm...it's the person.

I hear you loud and clear brother. I personally drink at home with my dobies, at least I know they got my back.

SgtBill wrote:

zephyp wrote:

wally626 wrote:What was the question again?

It is illegal to conceal and drink alcohol on the premises of a restaurant that serves alcohol, it is illegal to be intoxicated while carrying a handgun on public property if you have a concealed weapon permit. It is not clear to me if the handgun would have to be concealed or just simply carried.

My initial reading was it was illegal for anyone to carry while intoxicated in public but a simple reading of the law may imply you could carry a handgun while intoxicated if it was not concealed and you did not have a permit.

Under the new law effective this past July you may carry concealed in establishments that serve alcohol but you may not drink...unless you are someone special like a DA or retired LEO...that needs to be fixed...

Gee, and I am a retired LEO and I don't drink.
LOL Bill

Shhoooo... wainaminnit..... If I go out drinkin' w'Bill, an I'm carryin' concealed.... but he's aretirrred LEO and not drinkin'..... kin I drink his drinks for'im???? oO

The point of two bills is for the legislature to clean up the law, they can do it by removing the restaurant (being shorthand for places that serve liquor, under what ever permit is listed in the law) drinking ban entirely or by banning everyone. The exception for on-duty police would be to cover undercover agents and the like that may need to carry and consume some alcohol to maintain their cover. I do not remember if the VCDL had the on-duty exemption or not know but it makes sense to me.

Remember the VCDL does not introduce legislation your senators and representative do, so write some emails and let them know the sort of things you would like to be introduced this session. Once things get going the VCDL has a good site for tracking what gets introduced and how things are going. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?111+men+BIL is a link to the state system, looks like lots of stuff is already in the hopper.

Personally I prefer the law to not make judgments for me or anyone else. There is no way you can codify the right choice for all kinds of situations. Citizens must think and make their own choices. Honestly I don't really care until you are causing a problem, then I want to throw the book at you. A citizen who is responsible, but has a beer with their pizza while carrying and causes no problem shouldn't be a criminal IMHO.

For example, when I was a kid my family was almost hit head on by some guy who was on doctor prescribed meds (he ran off the road right in front of us and we stopped to help). He was out of it and of course the stuff he was on warned him not to operate heavy machinery. Does it matter really matter why? We get so caught up in the why as a way to not take responsibility for our actions IMHO.

If you know how to have a beer with dinner while carrying and it you can safely drive home, I've got no problem with that. Cause a problem with your gun or car and you don't deserve three strikes or whatever.

American law is at an interesting point where we are fine with punishing and even ruining someones life when they cause no harm, but do something we prohibit...all the while the guy who actually causes an accident while drunk that kills someone is a victim and deserves two, three, or fifteen chances. Go figure.

jsmithusaf89 wrote:Drinking and carrying? Not a good idea any day. Even if, at best, you had to pull and brandish you're a criminal. Why? Because you knowly consumed while carrying and that shows intent. It's pure bullsh**t. I wouldn't want Joe Morrisey at trial on something like that.

True but the way the current law is worded is garbage and a slap in the face to CHP holders. Must be parity. Either let everyone who CCs have a beer with their burger or no one...what is so special about a DA or retired LEO that they should be allowed to do so and not us...

zephyp wrote:

jsmithusaf89 wrote:Drinking and carrying? Not a good idea any day. Even if, at best, you had to pull and brandish you're a criminal. Why? Because you knowly consumed while carrying and that shows intent. It's pure bullsh**t. I wouldn't want Joe Morrisey at trial on something like that.

True but the way the current law is worded is garbage and a slap in the face to CHP holders. Must be parity. Either let everyone who CCs have a beer with their burger or no one...what is so special about a DA or retired LEO that they should be allowed to do so and not us...

They're trained to consume alcohol and carry a gun of course...

To have a drink and OC is not illegal in public. To CC and drink is not illegal on private property.

I sat across from PVC at an OC dinner recently. He explained to Delegate Pogge the two bills VCDL wants introduced concerning CCing and drinking in public. The first does not prohibit anyone from drinking. The second prohibits everyone but on-duty undercover officers from drinking. Either would be an improvement over the current situation.

t33j wrote:To have a drink and OC is not illegal in public.

True, however open carry is an invitation to get hassled in some places and drinking just a beer while OCing increases the chances for harassment in more places...

IMHO, when carrying a firearm openly , you are in a high profile situation where you are at it's core, Many folks can have a drink or two and still carry responsibly. Some Can't...there will always be that exception that destroys the curve and brings the wrath of John Q down on it. I think that guns and drinking ,,if at all... would be a better thing to do at home and not publicly where the anti;s can get some traction. Being able to do so publicly brings about the dilema of using the right or losing it...Noone ...Cop. lawyer,retired military ,whoever should be tipping back a few wihile there is gun strapped to their belt in plain view ......

One is either a responsible gun owner, or they are not. No amount of legislation will ever change that. Myself, I favor fewer laws and stricter punishment for when existing laws are broken.

Personally, I would like to see a clearer definition of public intoxication (possibly mirror the DUI standard). Once that is done, apply the standard equally across the board (CC/OC).

Yeah but the bottom line is there should be parity in the law and no one class of people regardless of who they are should be given privileges like this. Either let everybody or nobody CC and have a beer. My druthers (against my anti-big-intrusive-government judgement) is to say let no one drink and CC.

I agree DK, if we must have a stupid law on the books at least treat everyone the same.

gunderwood wrote:

mrjam2jab wrote:

wally626 wrote:
I believe the VCDL was going to push two bills one that removed the restaurant provision entirely and one that removed the ability of anyone to conceal carry and drink in a restaurant except on-duty police.

ummm.....anyone else see something wrong with the above?

The fact that we don't have any establishments which serve alcohol besides restaurants or that on-duty officers shouldn't be drinking anyways?

If the LEO is undercover and in the performance of thier duties than they should be allowed. We all know this and this in no way set's them above anyone else, but the Beat Cop in uniform or Detective just getting off shift in no way IMHO should be allowed special Privilages. The DA's should all fall under the same rules as well. What is good enough for us peons is good enough for the rest.

Taggure wrote:If the LEO is undercover and in the performance of thier duties than they should be allowed. We all know this and this in no way set's them above anyone else, but the Beat Cop in uniform or Detective just getting off shift in no way IMHO should be allowed special Privilages. The DA's should all fall under the same rules as well. What is good enough for us peons is good enough for the rest.

Yeah and we're seeing a good example in the wake of Saturday's shootings...no guns within 1000 feet of a federal official and enclose the house chamber with plexiglass. All for the public safety of course...

A jackass bill proposed by a jackass! We are gonna see a rash of that stuff in the weeks to come... Look at numnuts McCarthy (D-NY) and her buttole buddy Lautenburg(D-NJ)wanting to ban Hi Cap mags....Like some other nut job is gonna obey that one? We'll have to remain vigilante and watch these idjuts closely ,they may try to sneak one of their brain farts into another bill. The ones proposing the garbage are they themselves IMHO "garbage legislators" so it comes as no real surprise that they think they should be treated as royalty and protected by walls and stupid laws.....Manners and board rules stops me from typing what I really think of these self anointed mouth breathers but they are definitely not on my Cristmas card mailing list ......