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Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 11:34:03
by MWhiteDesigns
Good afternoon,
New to the forum as well as owning a fire arm. I expect you will be seeing alot of me in the near furture. I recently purchased my first hand gun (SIG P226 Enhanced Elite 9mm). I don't work in the best area so I would like to carry. However I cannot carry in my work place. I have a few questions of clarity.

1. If I leave my weapon in the car, in my locked glove box loaded, is that breaking the law (all research I've done points to no, but I would just like confirmation). What if I am pulled for any reason and it is loaded while locked in glove box?

2. If I am OC'ing with OWB, on my 3-4 o'clock and I am in the car, it is still clearly visibile from the passenger side. Would that be considered concealed? Some say yes, some say no due to me not having the intent to conceal and is not "hidden from common observation". Would it be better for me to remove it an put it on the seat or leave it in the above description?

I appreciate your responses and advice ahead of time! Happy Monday!

Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 13:01:35
by Jakeiscrazy
MWhiteDesigns wrote:Good afternoon,
New to the forum as well as owning a fire arm. I expect you will be seeing alot of me in the near furture. I recently purchased my first hand gun (SIG P226 Enhanced Elite 9mm). I don't work in the best area so I would like to carry. However I cannot carry in my work place. I have a few questions of clarity.

1. If I leave my weapon in the car, in my locked glove box loaded, is that breaking the law (all research I've done points to no, but I would just like confirmation). What if I am pulled for any reason and it is loaded while locked in glove box?

No it is legal. The state police website says : "Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel." http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_Res ... ealed.shtm

It should be noted that the word "secured" is currently(allegedly) being debated in the courts. According to VCDL, who helped right the law, "secured" means any closed compartment that can basically to keep the thing from flying around in the event of and accident. However according to one member he was arrested after an officer puled him over, was alerted to the gun by the driver, the officer then consulted judge and the judge said it needed to be locked so he was arrested. But then when he got to the magistrate they let him go but he says he still has court date. So....... Here is the thread you can read the whole story with updates but nobody has heard from him recently. virginia-laws/your-definition-secured-glove-box-carry-t10838.html?hilit=gun%20secured&start=40

2. If I am OC'ing with OWB, on my 3-4 o'clock and I am in the car, it is still clearly visibile from the passenger side. Would that be considered concealed? Some say yes, some say no due to me not having the intent to conceal and is not "hidden from common observation". Would it be better for me to remove it an put it on the seat or leave it in the above description?

I appreciate your responses and advice ahead of time! Happy Monday!

There are no specif laws governing OC in cars however it's generally accepted that as long as the gun is not concealed by something it's legal. Some suggest setting it on seat or dash board but then you have the concern it will fly around in the event of a rapid stop and you do a lot of holstering and unholstering also not really a good thing. I would immediately let an officer know that your carry openly when he walks up to the car just to dispel any notations you were attempting to conceal it and so he isn't surprised by a weapon when you go to get your insurance and stuff.

Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 17:05:58
by MWhiteDesigns
Thanks. Your answers are what I assumed. But being new to the scene, definitely wanted some clarity.

As for situation number 2, what if the seatbelt covers it slightly. It is definitely still noticeable from the passegner side, just not the drivers. Still good to go?

Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 22:12:16
by TenchCoxe
I highly recommend you read this entire thread.

Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 09:52:53
by MWhiteDesigns
TenchCoxe wrote:I highly recommend you read this entire thread.


Thanks for the read. I have a lock on my glove box so when it is stored in there, it is always locked.

I am still somewhat foggy.Does this mean if you are your car and do NOT have a CHP, it must be in a "locked container".

This doesn't necessarily make sense, since I am carrying for self defense, if i can't have it holstered, what good will it do when it comes down to me having to use it?I would have to stop the car, turn it off, pull the key out, unlock my glovebox then retrieve my gun...

ยง 18.2-308. States
For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

B. This section shall not apply to any person while in his own place of abode or the curtilage thereof.
Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:
10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.

Section 10 looks like it is merely stating that it is "ok" to conceal this weapoin if you are in the car and it is in a secured container(glovebox or what have you).

As for the first section i quoted, does that mean its ok for me to carry OWB?
My above description of wearing it OWB at 3-4 o'clock is observable but in no way am i trying to hide the weapons true nature. It is visible and obvious until i get in the car and apply the saftey restraint in which the law orders me to wear. Without this seat belt it would be easier to see.




So does this mean I can still carry on my person using my OWB Holster or is that not advised?

Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:04:43
by VBshooter
As I always have understood it..OC on your waist is OK, also if you put your gun in the glove box or console it does not have to be locked ,,,the fact that it closes is enough to be secure IMHO...Others may see it differently but thats what I do and in 2 traffic stops I have had no problem/.

Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 12:17:24
by TenchCoxe
MWhiteDesigns wrote:I am still somewhat foggy.Does this mean if you are your car and do NOT have a CHP, it must be in a "locked container".


No.

(1) In general, it is legal in Virginia for any person who is not disqualified from possessing a handgun to carry it openly.

(2) If you want to carry a handgun "about your person" in a manner such that the gun is "hidden from common observation", then generally, you need a concealed handgun permit (CHP).

These rules are not different in your car than they are anywhere else. However, there are a few exceptions to the second rule. Although you generally need a CHP to carry a concealed handgun, you may legally conceal a handgun "secured in a container or compartment in a vehicle or vessel" without a CHP. The question of whether "secured" means the container or compartment must be locked is one that currently is being resolved in the courts. My position on that question, as I expressed in the other thread linked above, is that "secured" clearly does not mean "locked" - although it likely means "closed." A gun in a closed, latched glovebox would be "secured in a compartment in the vehicle," regardless of whether the glovebox was also locked.

If you do not have a CHP and do not want to keep your gun in the glovebox or center console, then you legally may carry it openly. You can have it on the seat, on the dash, center console, whatever. As long as it is not "hidden from common observation".

As far as whether having it in a holster on your hip while seated in the driver's seat with your belt fastened is "hidden from common observation," my position is that there is no solid yes/no answer on that, as it really depends on all of the facts and circumstances. There is Virginia case law providing precedent for an argument that if the only way the gun would be visible is for a person to stand in a particular vantage point to catch a glimpse it, it could be considered to be "hidden from common observation." This does not mean, however, that any time you have a gun in a holster, with a seatbelt passing over it, you're illegally carrying concealed.

Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 09:35:53
by Alex
Hello,

Firstly, welcome to VGOF! It's always nice to have new faces.

As to your question, I think the others have covered that pretty well.

What I want to chime in with is that you should really consider getting your CHP as soon as possible. It fixes a lot of the problems associated with open carrying, and with VA being a "Shall-Issue" State, why not?

Hope everything works out for you,
-Alex

Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 20:47:58
by doubletap62
I'm with Alex.... get your CHP

Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 12:03:09
by ProShooter
doubletap62 wrote: get your CHP


I couldn't agree more! :)

Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:17:46
by texascustomholsters
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Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 23:29:35
by HilarityEnsues
Learn something new everyday.. I figured a loaded gun in the glovebox = concealed weapon.

Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 12:12:24
by TenchCoxe
HilarityEnsues wrote:Learn something new everyday.. I figured a loaded gun in the glovebox = concealed weapon.


It is. You are correct. A gun in a glovebox IS a "concealed" weapon, and as a GENERAL rule, having a concealed handgun requires a permit. It's just that the statute provides a specific exception to that general rule for a firearm carried "concealed" in a closed container in a vehicle. So yes, it is concealed, but under those specific circumstances, you're not required to have a permit for it. So even if you don't have a CHP, it is legal for you to carry your gun "concealed" in the glovebox in your car.

Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 13:23:34
by Chasbo00
TenchCoxe wrote:
HilarityEnsues wrote:Learn something new everyday.. I figured a loaded gun in the glovebox = concealed weapon.


It is. You are correct. A gun in a glovebox IS a "concealed" weapon, and as a GENERAL rule, having a concealed handgun requires a permit. It's just that the statute provides a specific exception to that general rule for a firearm carried "concealed" in a closed container in a vehicle. So yes, it is concealed, but under those specific circumstances, you're not required to have a permit for it. So even if you don't have a CHP, it is legal for you to carry your gun "concealed" in the glovebox in your car.


Exactly. Here is the statute exception for those who would like a reference:

10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel


http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-308

Re: Open Carry in Vehicle

PostPosted: Tue, 03 Feb 2015 10:04:38
by Viper21
+4 for getting your CHP.

Takes away all the questions left up to interpretation.

My Mother does not routinely carry. However, she has a CHP just for this reason. Living alone as a senior, she always has access to her weapon. However, the rare circumstance she actually carries in public, it is OWB, typically in a OC format.

With the ease in obtaining a CHP, & affordability of it, what.... $30-$35 for 5yrs.... it just makes sense, even for an OC'er. I can think of multiple situations an OC could cause grief or worse. Fear, Hate, & Ignorance, have led to harassment, & or situations left up to interpretation. Don't get me wrong, I 100% support OC. I just think having a CHP makes sense, even for an OCer.