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Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 05:35:12
by user
VCU Student (OP): A court appointed attorney may be worse than no attorney - it all depends on the luck of the draw - some are really good, some are really bad, and most are average.

Feel free to give me a call, 540 347 2430 - no charge unless I feel like I have to actually do "work" and I'll let you know before that happens.

I happen to have another case right now in Loudoun on this issue. The cop wants a "test case", so she's experimenting on my client. I filed a motion and memorandum asking for dismissal, since the cop went so far as to file a written complaint alleging that the gun was inside a closed "glove compartment". (I liked the use of the word, "compartment".) The judge looked like, "why are we even here?", but the prosecutor said the deputies need "guidance" from the court, and asked for a week to file a written response. I get another week after that to file rebuttal. The court put it on the docket for Dec. 13 on the assumption that if she rules favorably on my motion, we don't need to come back. I think that's what's going to happen.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:02:12
by GmuGuy
user can you keep us updated how that other case turns out? thanks

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:23:47
by jmicheals1984
So what are the laws regarding open carry of a handgun while in a vehicle? Does it have to be open in plain sight(Dashboard, front seat, etc) or does it have to be locked up in a trunk, unloaded, and in a case?

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:00:44
by tursiops
jmicheals1984 wrote:So what are the laws regarding open carry of a handgun while in a vehicle? Does it have to be open in plain sight(Dashboard, front seat, etc) or does it have to be locked up in a trunk, unloaded, and in a case?

Here is the law on concealed carry:
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM
There is no law on open carry, because the law is about what you cannot do, not about what you can do. You can open carry, you can put the gun on the seat beside you, so long as it is visible, or on the dash, or glue it to your head. It just has to be clearly visible. If you put it on the seat beside you and put your coat over it, it is concealed and is a no-no unless you have a CHP. Without a CHP, the only place you can hide it is in a secured container, like a latched glove box. Not the shelf under the steering wheel, not under the seat.

Nothing I said is legal opinion, it is my opinion. If you don't want an opinion, probably not a good idea to ask questions here!

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:01:18
by user
The phrase, "readily accessible", is used as part of the definition of whether one has the gun in his possession. In order to be found guilty under 18.2-308, the Commonwealth has to prove that you actually had the gun in your possession, which only means that you were able to "exercise dominion and control" over it. If it is readily accessible, then it was constructively in your possession. And, if it was "hidden from common observation" at the time, that's a violation unless one of the statutory exceptions applies.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 16:49:37
by PeteyDoug
Okay, a much needed update. I had court earlier today and I was found guilty, sentenced to 30 days in jail(All Suspended), and a $100 fine. So I went ahead and appealed it. The judge looked confused and it was the prosecuter that pushed her to find me guilty. This was not what I was expecting and i'm quite frustrated with this ordeal. My court appointed lawyer will be there at the appeal but i'm thinking about taking another route. I might just write a letter to the Governor, and who knows from there on. I really want to be entitled to some sort of restitution, for being thrown in jail, found guilty, having my gun taken away, and running around to the courts.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 16:55:00
by allingeneral
oh, man...that is not good! You really need to get a lawyer to help you appeal this decision! I'm sure we could scare up some funds to help pay for your defense. I don't know that we can get it all covered, but I'll start by kicking in $100.00!

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 18:16:57
by Chasbo00
Were you represented by a lawyer present at this trial?

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 18:34:31
by ProShooter
You need to appeal this, quickly.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 10:04:23
by TenchCoxe
GET. A. LAWYER.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 20:39:52
by allingeneral
Petey (OP) did you receive my PM?

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:31:08
by rromeo
Does Virginia not have an organization of gun savvy lawyers that defends ridiculous gun cases Pro Bono?

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:39:27
by SHMIV
rromeo wrote:Does Virginia not have an organization of gun savvy lawyers that defends ridiculous gun cases Pro Bono?


If one exists, it would be great to know about.

It seems to me that folks who would have to rely on court appointed counsel would be easy-pickin's for an anti-gun prosecutor.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 21:48:07
by TenchCoxe
Just because a lawyer is court-appointed doesn't mean he or she is a bumbling idiot or inept at presenting a vigorous defense.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 22:02:03
by SHMIV
TenchCoxe wrote:Just because a lawyer is court-appointed doesn't mean he or she is a bumbling idiot or inept at presenting a vigorous defense.


Oh, I'm well aware of that. But, it is a crap shoot. Lawyers are kind of chosen at random. I got a DUI several years ago; I lucked out on the random choosing. They literally snagged a guy that looked like a lawyer as he was passing by. They asked him if he was a lawyer, he said that he was, they asked if he had time to represent me, and he said that he did.

Turns out that he specialized in DUI cases.

So, the Good Lord was looking out for me, but, on the other hand, I also know people that would have been better off with representation from a french poodle.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 07:30:23
by user
I invited the guy to call me, but no one has done so. Wtf, over?

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 22:55:46
by wally626
user wrote:I invited the guy to call me, but no one has done so. Wtf, over?


He is a college student who is in over his head, and has finals next week. Yes, he should call you but if he does not, hopefully the court appointed lawyer does OK.

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:32:41
by MWhiteDesigns
Good Afternoon,
I am new to the scene. And am interested in this thread. Obviously there are different interpretations aof the word secured or contained and it can be intepreted differently.

As for the user's case of the firearm being in the Glove "Compartment", was the gun loose in the GC? Or was it holstered in the GC? Is the Gun being in a holster considered secured or being in a container. I believe a read somewhere that a holster is considered a secured container.

I currently do not have a concealed permit (I will be getting one shortly) howeverI in the meantime would like to OC with me. But where can i put it in my car? My holster is too big to fit in the GC. With that being said, can i keep it loaded and in a holster (in a container), can it be in the side door compartment? Or would that be considered concealed?

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:59:22
by TenchCoxe
MWhiteDesigns wrote:As for the user's case of the firearm being in the Glove "Compartment", was the gun loose in the GC? Or was it holstered in the GC? Is the Gun being in a holster considered secured or being in a container. I believe a read somewhere that a holster is considered a secured container.

I currently do not have a concealed permit (I will be getting one shortly) howeverI in the meantime would like to OC with me. But where can i put it in my car? My holster is too big to fit in the GC. With that being said, can i keep it loaded and in a holster (in a container), can it be in the side door compartment? Or would that be considered concealed?



Note that the statute says secured "in a compartment or container in a vehicle or vessel."

So it can be in a "compartment." I can't imagine how much more "secured in a compartment" you can get than in a closed, latched (but not necessarily locked) glove compartment, regardless of whether it's in a holster. Then it arguably would be in a container in a compartment.

I keep mine in the center console of my F150, which has a latching lid. But then again, I also have a CHP, so it doesn't really matter.

As to your second question, the whole point of the rule is that it allows you to carry a gun in a manner that would be considered concealed and would otherwise require a permit. So even if putting it in the door compartment would be considered "hidden from common observation" and therefore concealed, as long as it is considered "secured" in the compartment, then it's ok.

What we're still working on, and the courts have yet to define, is what does it mean to be "secured." I firmly believe it does not mean the compartment or container must be locked, but beyond that, there is no indication. My gut feel is that it means the compartment or container must be closed in some manner so that the gun is not flopping around, falling out, etc. Otherwise it's not "secured."

Re: Your definition of "Secured" Glove box carry

PostPosted: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 15:11:33
by PeteyDoug
I just wrapped up my semester so I'm now free to focus on my situation. I'm going to try to give user a call tomorrow and see where things go from there. Thanks for all the help guys!

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