"think" M4 is short-ranged?

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"think" M4 is short-ranged?

Postby bali » Mon, 03 Oct 2016 17:10:52



:-) The M4, with a scope, will effectively reach man torsos a lot further than it makes any sense to shoot at them, civilian-shtf. I'll take a shorter barrel with sound suppressor, over just a longer barrel (noisy) any day! Being heard to a maximum of half a mile (more likely 1/4 mile) rather than 1.5 miles, can make a big difference in your longevity, if hostiles are about

Troops miss with thosuands of rds for every hit that they get with the rifle, and a big reason for that is flinching from noise/flash at night. Also, the noise and flash locate you for the enemy, making your firing hasty/error-prone. A good suppressor changes things dramatically.

Use 60 gr Aquila subsonic .22 ammo in the Ciener .22lr unit in the 223, and you can brain men,deer, or cattle to 50m, and be a lethal threat to 100m+. When you know to hold shut the bolt with your non firing thumb, the .22 thru the 223 suppressor, sounds like a BB gun. The bullet's hitting the target makes a lot more noise than is present at the muzzle! You can hear the 'thwock" when you hit a rabbit, for instance.

When you know enough to have luminous sights, and avoid being out in daylight, the suppressed .22 takes on an entirely new aspect. When you can't tell where you're taking fire from, you also can't tell which side of the tree constitutes cover! That means more shots at still stationary targets once the firing starts, which means more hits. Let the "hittees" howl and scream for a few minutes, until their buddies shoot them and take their stuff.


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Re: "think" M4 is short-ranged?

Postby bali » Mon, 03 Oct 2016 17:15:15

5 lbs of concealable armor, $200 worth of passive IR monocular, $100 worth of kid's airsoft Nvd goggle, luminous sights (or at least, day-glow paint on your irons) and again, enough sense to stay underground during daylight hours, and you've got a real chance if shtf.

Cache some food and gear near your local water-source, and have a spiderhole there, ready to be extended horizonally if shtf (dig at night, show no light, be quiet and leave no sign). To be seen, if shtf, will mean to get shot.

Traps, snares, nets, trotlines, bird lime on roosts, fish poison, can all be used at night, greatly reducing your chances of being shot.


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Re: "think" M4 is short-ranged?

Postby MarcSpaz » Tue, 04 Oct 2016 00:15:53

Got to be honest, it doesn't matter if the round makes it there if it doesn't have enough energy to do anything once it gets there. I would not engage a soft target past 350-400 yards... but 600 is really max for small game.

This is what I use for small game out to 400 yards.

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Re: "think" M4 is short-ranged?

Postby bali » Tue, 04 Oct 2016 08:59:17

the 69 gr hpbt, from an M4, will kill you from half a mile, so don't kid yourself that it wont. All it takes is a remaining 60 ft lbs to be lethal, and the M4 has that much energy remaining at far more than 500 yds. I've taken 2 deer, both at 100 yds or so, with one shot each of 55 gr ball, from 11.5" barrel. Neither one went any further than I've known deer to run after being chest hit with 30-30 softpoints. I keep 60 gr Nosler Partition softpoints in the AR, but ball ammo is no joke, either.


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Re: "think" M4 is short-ranged?

Postby bali » Tue, 04 Oct 2016 09:00:55

I use 60 gr Aquila subsonic .22's on small game, thru the Ciener .22lr conversion unit in the AR, cause, number one, you're going to mostly miss small game at 300 yds, and 2, small game aint worth walking that far to pick up a blown up critter, which is what you'll get with 223 hits at such range. Such critters also aint worth a 223 rd, Certainly, such is the case if shtf, cause ammo will be in short supply and making that much noise will call in your killers. A good sound suppressor makes full charge 223's sound like a normal .22lr rifle. It also makes the subsonic 22's sound like a BB gun, if you know to use your non firing hand to hold-shut the bolt.


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