.22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

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.22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby bali » Tue, 04 Oct 2016 09:52:06

http://www.22lrconversions.com/

the parts swap takes just 10 seconds. the Unit weighs just 3/4 lb. Accuracy is 2" groups at 50 yds, or better, in 1 in 9" or 1 in 12" twists. I can't speak for 1 in 7" twist. That fast a rifling twist might require the 60 gr Aquila subsonic .22 ammo.


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Re: .22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby M1A4ME » Thu, 06 Oct 2016 20:55:47

Like all guns, accuracy and reliability are not the same gun to gun, brand of ammo to brand of ammo.

Some guns (AR15's) are accurate with some brands of .22 ammo. Some won't shoot any .22 ammo very well. My son's chromed bore 20" barreled AR15 leaded up so bad it took days and multiple brushes and a pretty good sized pile of patches to clean up. None of mine have ever leaded up.

If you buy one, try different brands of ammo till you find what is both reliable and accurate in your rifle.

Run the conversion kit wet with a good coat of light oil. You may have break-in problems till the rails get some of the finish worn off them. I've actually cleaned mine up (two of them so far) with carb. cleaner and then used lapping compound on the rails and lots of hand cycles backwards/forwards on rails to smooth the finish out and "break them in" quicker.

And, .22 ammo, these days, isn't that easy to find or that cheap anymore. I did see some CCI .22 ammo at Walmart the other day, but at $.10 a round I'll just shoot my reloaded .223 ammo.


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Re: .22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby bali » Fri, 07 Oct 2016 20:13:47

beware the lapping compound, don't get any of it inside your alloy receiver, cause all the "lapping" will get done on the softer aluminum. If the parts need buffing, then buff them with a $15 harbor freight hand held grinder.

a very tiny amount of mercury will almost instantly clean a bore of any amount of lead. Simply plug the muzzle, use a funnel to pour the mercury into the chamber, plug the chamber end and swish the mercury up and down the bore a few times, and then pour it out. Run a patch thru the chamber and bore, and you'll be done.

I've owned or shot (friend's) a dozen of these units in as many AR's over the years, and never had a problem, but I use plated .22lr only for practice. Never did care for the plain lead, waxed crud. That's how the Aquila 60 gr subsonic ammo is loaded, but that's special use stuff, maybe 200 rds in the first year of shtf and less than 50 rds per year thereafter.


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Re: .22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby jdonovan » Sat, 08 Oct 2016 20:34:03

2" at 50 yds, is an experience in random hole making. If you're working on shooting fundamentals, which is what I use my 22 time for, then I expect quite a bit more accuracy to diagnose and work them.


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Re: .22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby bali » Sat, 08 Oct 2016 23:28:56

yeah, right, like you'll have nice bullseyes on game and they'll hold nice and still and you'll have a sandbagged bench to fire from. Get lost, bser. I've taken literally an 18 wheeler full of small critters, with handguns that probably wouldn't (collectively) average 2" at 25 yds. I guess you just don't know how to stalk. The indians couldn't group 2" at 10 yds with their blunt arrows, or 3" with their lashed=on stone arrowheads, but they got game, regardless of that fact.


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Re: .22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby bali » Sat, 08 Oct 2016 23:30:50

and I DID say that many group better than that. Game is usually in brush, at dusk or dawn, moving and you have to take the shot from standing, unsupported, or you wont get the shot. And no, you aint grouping your shots on a 1/2" disk under such conditions. In fact, you wont be doing so on 1". So the .22 unit is plenty accurate enough for serious small game hunting.


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Re: .22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby jdonovan » Sat, 08 Oct 2016 23:52:23

wow sounds like you're having a real bad day. Hopefully you'll feel better tomorrow.


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Re: .22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby M1A4ME » Sun, 09 Oct 2016 09:01:12

I've run my .22 conversion kits in four, maybe five, AR15's. I've tried only Federal and Remington ammo. I just can't convince myself to may $10 for 100 rounds of CCI, I'll just shoot my reloaded .223 rounds vs. that.

Only one of those AR's might group inside 2" at 50 yds. Funny as it seems, it's an XM177 clone. You know, the one with the little short 11" or so barrel with the big long flash suppressor pinned/welded to the barrel to reach the legal 16" length for rifles. One turn in nine inch barrel, too.

I don't think I've used the conversion kits in any of the 1 turn in 7 inch barreled AR15s, so no comments on those.

Be aware that most of the time the .22 ammo will not strike the same POI as the .223 ammo, so you have to either adjust the sights/scope or adjust your POA.

That little XM177 clone shoots it's best ammo exactly 3" lower than .223 ammo (55 grain FMJ) at 25 meters.

My 20" HBAR clone shoots it's best ammo exactly 3" low and 2" left of the .223 ammo at 25 meters.

My 16" carbine shoots it's best ammo exactly 2" right and 1" higher than .223 ammo at 25 meters.

The 16" and 20" guns would do good to shoot 1.5 inch groups at 25 meters.

Most folks who shoot at a range will find out, when they get in the woods, that it just ain't the same. You have to learn how to accurately estimate the range to the target. You have to shoot from an unsupported position, most of the time. You have to learn to move through the woods, you have to learn to see the game (I always struggled with that but my dad was very good at it) and then you have to learn to sneak up on it (I was better at that, but maybe the squirrels that I managed to "see" were just the dumber ones and so therefore easier to sneak up on???)

If I was still small game hunting the XM177 clone would be a fun rifle to hunt with. The others would stay at home.

I remember a story my dad used to tell about his dad going hunting one day. He was feeding a family with 5 kids and grandpa still living with them at the time, so small game was food, not just enjoyment.

He said his dad left that morning with his single shot Western Field .22 and seven .22 shells (they preferred .22 shorts as they were cheaper in those days and quieter, too). He came back after lunch with four squirrels, two rabbits and a ruffed grouse. Everyone shot in the head. You can't do that without being able to move, being able to see, being able to stalk and being able to shoot.

Would grandpa like my AR15 with a .22 kit in it? Hell no. Too heavy and too bulky for easing through the woods on a damp cool morning looking to put some meat on the dinner table for the family.

Bali, lighten up man. No one here is going to ask you to meet them in the parking lot after work. It's just a bunch of folks with similar interests who enjoy getting together (online and sometimes for a picnic/shooting session once or twice a year) to discuss similar likes/dislikes and how they approach them.


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Re: .22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby bali » Sun, 09 Oct 2016 12:48:02

what I did was cut a "v" notch into the top of the (luminous) "normal range" wing of the peep sight. I sighted in the "long range" wing of the peep at 200 yds with the 60 gr Nosler partition sp;s. Then I sighted in the scope (in see thru and return to zero base) at 300 yds with the 69 gr smk bthp match load. Then I built up "ears" on the v notch out of Jb weld epoxy and blackened them with a magic marker. Then I used a 3 sided swiss needle file to get the v notch zeroed at 50 yds with 60 gr Aquila subsonic ammo. I also memorized and wrote down the clicks to adjust things to other ammo.

Some guns, the .22 unit will be very close to zeroed at 50 yds when you flip up the long range peep for use with the 22 unit. In reality, being within 2" of zero at 50 yds, suffices for a helluva lot of game taking. If it doesn't you aint much of a stalker. I've taken game with slingshot, throwing stick, bows, etc. It's just not that hard to get within 25 yds, which makes the 22 POI within 1" of the 223.

Your time must not be worth anything, and you have a helluva source of 223 components, cause mostly, the components run 10c for the bullet, 10c for the powder, 3c each for the case and the primer. So if somehow that is cheaper than 10c 22lr ammo, you can't do math. Also, it takes an hour or so to knock out 400 rds of 223 with a progressive, and about 150 rds with just a single station press. Anybody who's worth a hoot makes $20 an hour, and that means you're paying more for 223 reloads than for PMC reloadable brass 223 ammo. MY overtime costs my boss 1.5x base pay. Do you give away your overtime?. also, why make all that noise when a subsonic .22 rd is very low noise level thru the conversion unit (even without a suppressor)? Enough of the 22lr's powder gas is diverted into the gas tube to make quite a difference in noise level. same is true of using the subsonic .22 ammo.


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Re: .22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby bali » Sun, 09 Oct 2016 12:51:29

could your grandpa snipe effectively at 1/4 mile, as the scoped 223 can do? could he pierce soft armor, or 1/8" steel plate, as the 223 can do? could he put a man on his ass with a single chest hit, as the 223 softpoint can do? could he harvest a deer at 150 yds with a chest hit, as the 223 sp can do? the POINT of the AR and .22 unit is you get the CHOICE (with 10 seconds of parts swap) of EITHER 223 or 22lr,. If you can't figure out even that much, well, there's no hope for you. and there's no reason to shoot critters in the head with the .22, risking a miss or shooting off one's jaw, to die days later. There's no meat on the ribs of a small critter, so a .22lr thru the rib cage destroys no meat. is your .22 set up with luminous sights, as an AR can be? does it offer 6 hits per second, as the AR does? Does it fire the GI rd, take GI parts and mags? is it threaded for a silencer? can you use the iron sights with the silencer on the .22lr, as you can with the AR? will your .22 take down in 5 seconds, to hide in your pack, then reassemble in 10 seconds to fire, as the AR will? does your .22 feature a chromed bore and chamber, as the AR can? does your .22 have a dark, rust-resistant finish? is it available as an 80% finished lower, so you can have it without Big Bro knowing that you have it?


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Re: .22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby MarcSpaz » Sun, 09 Oct 2016 13:33:12

I think a village somewhere is missing their idiot.


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Re: .22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby M1A4ME » Sun, 09 Oct 2016 21:21:56

Grandpa was a WW1 veteran of the 3rd US Inf. Div. in France and Germany. He signed up with 3 good buddies who didn't make it home. They're still buried in French soil.

Do you know how a small a grouse's head is? How often they move it while walking around feeding? Those old guys fed their families with their small game and they're .22 rifles.

I once advised a guy I knew not to stand in the middle of a circle and throw rocks at all the folks that made up the circle. I'll give you the same advice. You can't throw rocks fast enough to keep from getting hit.


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Re: .22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby bali » Sun, 09 Oct 2016 21:35:23

do you know that there's no reason to risk a miss by aiming at a bird's head? do you know how stupid it is to waste so much time and effort getting that close, for a mere couple of ozs of meat? Do you know how much easier it all is if you put a silencer on a .22 autorifle? :-) Do you know how much easier it is to just use traps, bird lime on roosts, nets, snares, trotlines. ? do you know the MAIN trick to getting a lot of success with trapping or nets/lines? of course you dont.


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Re: .22lr conversions for 223 fighting rifles.

Postby M1A4ME » Mon, 10 Oct 2016 08:24:06

Just because you can't get that close to a grouse don't think others can't.

I used to know an old guy that could sneak up on deer and shoot them in the ear with his .22 revolver. He said the deer hit the ground harder than they ever did when shot in the chest with a 12 ga. slug.

Head shooting? You do it so you don't mess up the meat you plan to eat. Yeah, some people eat squirrel brains but my folks didn't, so the brain was wasted anyway. He was feeding a good sized family during the depression and WW2 years though so the meat mattered. And grouse weigh more than a couple ounces, even just the meat you eat.

Who really needs a silencer to hunt squirrels? Apparently grandpa didn't. Neither did my dad.

Snares? In those days people let their cows and dogs (small and large) run woods. Some people even let their chickens roam free. I guess using the .22 insured they didn't end up killing their own, or their neighbors pets/farm animals.


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