Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

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Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby dems4guns » Wed, 25 May 2011 16:49:15

I wanted to find out if I could take my firearms with me on Amtrak or the bus leaving from downtown Washington, DC. So, I sent out an email to DC police and got the following response. It turns out you are legally allowed to transport your firearms for the purposes of boarding public transportation as long as the transportation companies have a policy allowing it.

So, based on this, it would appear the same would be true if you are going to the airport.
TSA rules require that your firearms be separated from ammunition and the firearms should be locked inside a hard case in checked baggage. You must declare the firearm at the counter of the train, bus or airport and they are entitled to inspect them before going in as checked baggage. (You cannot carry-on the train or the bus and certainly not the airplane.)

Of course, you need to know the gun laws of your destination to make sure you are in compliance.
Dems4Guns
______________________________________________________________________________

This email in reply to your inquiry regarding the transport of firearms on Amtrak or Bus in the District of Columbia.

U.S. Code Title 18 provides for the legal transportation of firearms from one lawful location to another lawful location. The District of Columbia allows for the transport of firearms through its jurisdiction when in compliance with Title 18.

In your specific situation it would be lawful for you to transport your firearm through the District of Coumbia and to Union Station in order to board an Amtrak train or a bus, provided that is lawful to check in your firearm as luggage. Amtrak does allow for firearms to be checked in as luggage, so therefore it is lawful for you to transport it. As for bus transportation, the same legal status must be adhered to, the busline you are travelling on must allow for firearms to be checked into luggage, and if so, you may then transport your firearm through the District and board the bus.

Please remember that it is only lawful to carry your firearm unloaded in the most rear quarters of your vehicle while transporting your firearm.


If you have any further questions please feel free to contact me by email or by phone at 202-727-9889.

Colin Hall
Sergeant
Gun Control/Firearms Registration Unit/Civilian Fingerprint Section
Metropolitan Police Department
202-727-9889-Desk
202-727-4275-main office

Preventing terrorism is everybody’s business.
If you SEE something, SAY something.
Call the Metropolitan Police Department at (202) 727-9099 or email at SAR@DC.GOV to report suspicious activity or behavior that has already occurred.
Call 911 to report in-progress threats or emergencies.

To learn more, visit http://www.mpdc.dc.gov/operationtipp.
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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby totes6 » Wed, 25 May 2011 17:35:42

To be completely honest. You couldn't pay me to carry a firearm into DC. And it isn't the illegal gangs I am worried about. It is the trigger happy cops there that worry me.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/11/03/20101103arizona-man-arrested-truck-ammunition.html

They called the bomb disposal unit out for that one too????


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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby gunderwood » Wed, 25 May 2011 17:51:03

totes6 wrote:To be completely honest. You couldn't pay me to carry a firearm into DC. And it isn't the illegal gangs I am worried about. It is the trigger happy cops there that worry me.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/11/03/20101103arizona-man-arrested-truck-ammunition.html

They called the bomb disposal unit out for that one too????

The current (post 9/11) risk management strategy is don't think, just escalate it. Calling out the bomb squad for a pencil is ok. It's typical government CYAing...make sure you can't be held responsible for the decision.
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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby dems4guns » Wed, 25 May 2011 22:23:10

Geez.
I thought the forum would appreciate the solid information so that we know the law and what is permissible.

Turns out it's just another opportunity for you guys to bash DC and government generally. As a country overall, we have some of the best and most professional policemen in the world. Go to any S. American or Caribbean or Central Asian country and the policemen are on the take and target european tourists for cash.

What does bashing DC and government have to do with Rules and Regulations?
Can you stick to the topic?

Thanks,
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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby zephyp » Thu, 26 May 2011 04:36:35

Hey Cody, yes, many times postings like this lead us down rabbit hole discussions. Some are good and some arent. Sometimes ya just have to sift the wheat and chaff. Anyway, have fun and dont get discouraged.

*sigh* - and guys, yes please try to stay on topic...

Btw, I only go to DC when forced by wife or senior leadership... :whistle:
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby allingeneral » Thu, 26 May 2011 06:30:20

Your post is appreciated and contains a lot of good information.

Only problem is that if DC can stick it to ya with regard to carrying a firearm, I think they would. Even if you are well within your rights, and well within the law (Interstate Commerce Act), that doesn't mean that the cops know about or care about the law. All it takes is one guy who wants to push the issue, then you're saddled with a ride to the clink and a lot of legal fees, regardless of whether the cop was right or not. Unfortunately, the burden falls on you to prove your innocence (which is ass-backwards).

Carrying into DC, for any reason, is not high on my list of things to do, but I do appreciate your input and if the need ever arises, I now have a something to refer back to for information.

Thanks for posting!
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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby OakRidgeStars » Thu, 26 May 2011 09:14:31

Well said.

Now can we get back to bashing D.C. for their criminal suppression of my Second Amendment rights?.
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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby gunderwood » Thu, 26 May 2011 09:52:10

dems4guns wrote:Geez.
I thought the forum would appreciate the solid information so that we know the law and what is permissible.

Turns out it's just another opportunity for you guys to bash DC and government generally. As a country overall, we have some of the best and most professional policemen in the world. Go to any S. American or Caribbean or Central Asian country and the policemen are on the take and target european tourists for cash.

What does bashing DC and government have to do with Rules and Regulations?
Can you stick to the topic?

Thanks,
Dems4Guns

What does DC have to do with it? Well, they are the government and police agency who have and push for laws which require such federal transportation laws in the first place. Make no mistake, this isn't generosity on DCs part, but rather the Feds telling them to back off.

I'll applaud DC when they get rid of their ill advised and abusive gun laws on their own rather than being forced to step by step by the courts and Congress.

Edit: Comparing our police force to those of third world nations and applauding them for not being as corrupt as those other guys isn't saying much. The police aren't like that here exactly because citizens here and the government structure we have (although that is changing) won't stand for it.
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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby dems4guns » Thu, 26 May 2011 10:28:25

Gunderwood/OakRidge,
I would like to see DC liberalize their gun policies as well, but calling them abusive and demonizing an entire city government is not helping. They are well-meaning citizens trying to do the right thing....we may disagree as to HOW they are doing that, but they are not intending to abuse gun owners.

You have to start somewhere: Allowing for transportation of firearms through the city for public transportation is a START.

Next step is to get DC to provide reciprocity for valid concealed carry permits for Virginia and Maryland.

Or, maybe the next step is to get DC to allow firearms to be transported in a vehicle unloaded and secured in the rear-most compartment of the vehicle. That way if I am carrying in Virginia or Maryland and need to make a trip in the city, I can secure the firearm and then drive into the city without having to drive somewhere to drop it off or risk violating the law and getting caught. This is the kind of law that would be viewed by most, even residents of DC, as "reasonable."

Or, are you going to continue to scream from the mountaintop how abusive DC is they are denying your 2A rights (blah, blah, blah...) and alienating reasonable first steps?

If you want DC to change, insulting them is not going to work.

Thanks,
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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby gunderwood » Fri, 27 May 2011 16:21:36

dems4guns wrote:I would like to see DC liberalize their gun policies as well, but calling them abusive and demonizing an entire city government is not helping.

Their actions after the SCOTUS ruling was abusive. They purposefully made it as difficult as possible to the point of being almost impossible out of spite. Are we to applaud them for it?

Unless people raise a ruckus and point out to the average person (who would have no idea that's what DC did), nothing will change. You don't fix corruption by covering it up.


dems4guns wrote:They are well-meaning citizens trying to do the right thing....we may disagree as to HOW they are doing that, but they are not intending to abuse gun owners.

Again, their specific actions and regulations they imposed targeted gun owners with the intent of treating them like criminals because their previous law was deemed illegal.

If by good intentions you mean that they don't want violence, then yes we all want that. Only a psychopath wouldn't. However, just because we all have those good intentions doesn't mean that the methods can't be criticized. The course of action DC has been and is pursuing has a been demonstrated to be a failure. It's a violation of what it means to be a citizen...in fact it makes them subjects.

This isn't kindergarten; you don't get an A for effort. They are and continue to be abusive towards gun owners and they sould be condemned for that, not praised.


dems4guns wrote:You have to start somewhere: Allowing for transportation of firearms through the city for public transportation is a START.

Except they have absolutely nothing to do with it. The federal law exists because several states (to include DC) were being abusive towards firearms owners who were traveling...it created a nightmare. Thus, the feds stepped in and told the localizes that under a certain set of conditions they can not enforce their local laws. This is what DC is reacting to, they are not being good or generous in any way. Its illegal for them to do otherwise.

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=59
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Ow ... ection_Act

That's been around since 1986. This isn't DCs doing, this is the feds telling them to behave. You don't get credit for being disciplined for bad behavior.


dems4guns wrote:Next step is to get DC to provide reciprocity for valid concealed carry permits for Virginia and Maryland.

Or, maybe the next step is to get DC to allow firearms to be transported in a vehicle unloaded and secured in the rear-most compartment of the vehicle. That way if I am carrying in Virginia or Maryland and need to make a trip in the city, I can secure the firearm and then drive into the city without having to drive somewhere to drop it off or risk violating the law and getting caught. This is the kind of law that would be viewed by most, even residents of DC, as "reasonable."

:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: (5 of 5)

Has DC ever passed any pro-gun law without being forced to by Congress or the courts? The only way this has a snowballs chance in hell is if a higher power (i.e. the feds) tell them they have no choice. That's the history of every pro-gun thing that's happened in DC in our lifetimes.


dems4guns wrote:Or, are you going to continue to scream from the mountaintop how abusive DC is they are denying your 2A rights (blah, blah, blah...) and alienating reasonable first steps?

To date the only pro-gun things to happen in DC are a result of people complaining to the feds that DC is abusive...because they are. DC, of it's own volition, has never done anything pro-gun AFAIK. It's always been their masters telling them to knock off the bad and corrupt behavior because the people noticed.
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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby gunderwood » Fri, 27 May 2011 16:28:10

@dems

You seem to be under the incorrect impression that because of this response that DC has done something positive for gun owners. No, DC and other states were told (i.e. forced) by the feds to quit abusing traveling firearm owners. Generally they've pushed the boundaries as much as possible even with that law.

DC and several states generally hate the law which forces them to allow such activity. They resent it, not support it, but they have no say in the matter.
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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby dems4guns » Fri, 27 May 2011 17:24:20

No one is being "abused" here. You don't see a bunch of cops cracking down and inspecting trunks to find weapons from normally law-abiding citizens. "Abuse" requires an assault against an individual or group of individuals. No one was assaulted. There is a law against swearing in Virginia Beach...does that mean it is abusive to people who like to swear?...No.

Gunderwood, you have to stop seeing DC citizens and their politicians as abusive and hateful. They are neighbors and citizens who are trying to keep their streets safe. You have an issue with labelling people from afar and hating them because of YOUR perception of them.

They are trying to do the right thing to make their streets safe.....you and I just happen to disagree with how they are doing this through restrictive gun laws.

You will get a lot more of their ear if you stop insulting them and start asking for reasonable steps to liberalize guns for people who are not prohibited from owning them otherwise.

First steps:
- Allow all US residents to transport their firearms in their vehicles unloaded and in the rearmost compartment through the district;
- Provide reciprocity for Maryland and Virginia concealed permit holders;
- Allow DC residents to transport their firearms in their vehicles unloaded in their rearmost compartment of the vehicle or locked in a gun case;
- Allow DC residents to carry loaded firearms on their own property concealed or unconcealed.

I think Democrats and many liberals and most moderates would support those initiatives. Education and reasonableness are the keys to getting their support.
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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby gunderwood » Fri, 27 May 2011 18:21:26

dems4guns wrote:No one is being "abused" here. You don't see a bunch of cops cracking down and inspecting trunks to find weapons from normally law-abiding citizens. "Abuse" requires an assault against an individual or group of individuals. No one was assaulted. There is a law against swearing in Virginia Beach...does that mean it is abusive to people who like to swear?...No.

Abuse can be more than just physical. For example, the LAPD abused their power by lying (technically deception) to the LA board of supervisors about .50BMGs because they wanted them banned. Barrett was there and tried to set the record straight, but wasn't listened too...so they now refuse to work on and service the LAPD Barrett's.

http://www.50bmgstore.com/la50banbarrett.pdf

The DC police and governments actions after Heller I were abusive. They intentionally complied with the letter of the ruling, but made it all but impossible to actually register a firearm in DC.

As for a law being abusive...I guess you don't think Jim Crow laws were abusive, eh? To infringe on the 2nd is the abuse of power by the government.


dems4guns wrote:Gunderwood, you have to stop seeing DC citizens and their politicians as abusive and hateful.

Hmm, kind of hard given...




I could post on and on about their corruption and bad behavior, but I suggest you do a bit of research. The DC department is one of the worst in the nation for abuse.



dems4guns wrote:I think Democrats and many liberals and most moderates would support those initiatives. Education and reasonableness are the keys to getting their support.

And you would be wrong. Such things have been tried in the past and they don't work because DC Democrats and PD oppose them. Just look at what they said in response and leading up to the Heller decision! It was an onslaught of the usual blood in the streets non-sense.
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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby dems4guns » Fri, 27 May 2011 18:42:24

Really, Gunderwood?

Comparing gun restrictions to Jim Crowe laws??????

REally???????

Since when did you have to use a separate toilet as a gun owner?

Since when did you get beat up and hosed down with a firehose because you were a gun owner?

Since when were you clubbed in the head because you demonstrated for gun rights?

There is NO comparison and it makes you look not only ridiculous but racist. (Because you would belittle the inhumane treatment of black people with gun law restrictions.)

You have NO RESPECT.

I am really done with you.

I will not respond any further to your postings, neighbor.

Keep your hatred and your ignorance to yourself.

If you apologize and start activing respectful and civil, I will respond, but until then, you and I are done.
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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby gunderwood » Fri, 27 May 2011 19:27:24

dems4guns wrote:Really, Gunderwood?

Comparing gun restrictions to Jim Crowe laws??????

REally???????

Since when did you have to use a separate toilet as a gun owner?

Since when did you get beat up and hosed down with a firehose because you were a gun owner?

Since when were you clubbed in the head because you demonstrated for gun rights?

There is NO comparison and it makes you look not only ridiculous but racist. (Because you would belittle the inhumane treatment of black people with gun law restrictions.)

You have NO RESPECT.

I am really done with you.

I will not respond any further to your postings, neighbor.

Keep your hatred and your ignorance to yourself.

If you apologize and start activing respectful and civil, I will respond, but until then, you and I are done.
Dems4Guns.


You made a claim. I made a counterpoint to that claim by showing an example.

Your claim was that the law could not be abusive, that abuse required physical violations. I'll quote you here:
dems4guns wrote:"Abuse" requires an assault against an individual or group of individuals. No one was assaulted. There is a law against swearing in Virginia Beach...does that mean it is abusive to people who like to swear?...No.


I countered that abuse can be more than physical and can even be just the creation of unjust laws. To prove this point I needed to provide a counter example and I did. Obviously by your reaction, I provided a good counter example as it destroyed your fabricated definition of abuse. It clearly showed that the law, even without physical assault (although that did happen too), can be abusive by exceeding the power granted to the government (they have no such power to enact laws like Jim Crow) and also by degrading the natural rights which citizens have simply by being human (e.g. segregation). By your own admission laws can be abusive, so your entire argument is based on a falsehood.

Now, just because you admit that laws can be abusive without a physical assault, that doesn't prove that the DC handgun laws are abusive. I've provided some half-hearted assertions that they are, but now that we have common ground (laws can be abusive by degrading the natural rights of humans), we can discuss the DC governments and PD actions specifically. In the interest of being fair I should point out that the burden of showing how DCs handgun laws were abusive by degrading the natural rights of their subjects...er, humans, is on me.

The 2nd Amendment is rooted in the assertion that it is a natural right of all humans to defend themselves. It is the right to "life" which the Declaration mentions. I'm going to jump over and assume that even you would not be so daft as to suggest that the natural right to life, which by necessity encompasses self-defense, is to NOT to be afforded to the residents of DC. I.e. implying that they are less than human and as such have no right to life, say like most Democrats claim for a fetus. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that point.

The previous laws in DC banned handguns. These weren't some old Blue laws or Jim Crow laws which were carried over, but they were actively defended by the DCPD and DC government. If handguns were not banned before, those representatives and civil servants would have gladly banned them. They have made it clear that if allowed they would do it all over again today.

Now to avoid making this too lengthy and formal, let me sum it up. The very creation, defending, and enforcement of the DC handgun ban was abusive to the natural rights of human beings. Specifically, the right to life. It degrades them to the status of sub-human, from citizens to subjects, by codifying into law that their lives are not worth enough to the DC government to permit self-defense with a handgun....which I should note their attacker would almost certainly have despite the ban. Actions or words which defend that position deserve nothing but the deepest scorn and condemnation. The DC handgun ban really made them second class citizens in a way just as bad as any Jim Crow law. Your friends and neighbors in the DC government are the ones who are responsible for it. Your attempted defense of those people and their actions is just as despicable as defending Jim Crow.
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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby FatAndy » Fri, 27 May 2011 23:00:17

dems4guns wrote:
Comparing gun restrictions to Jim Crowe laws??????

REally???????



Ummmmmm, REally!

But don't take it from me or Gunderwood. Listen to a fellow "Dem".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/29/AR2010062905329.html


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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby zephyp » Sat, 28 May 2011 07:44:14

dems4guns wrote:Or, maybe the next step is to get DC to allow firearms to be transported in a vehicle unloaded and secured in the rear-most compartment of the vehicle. That way if I am carrying in Virginia or Maryland and need to make a trip in the city, I can secure the firearm and then drive into the city without having to drive somewhere to drop it off or risk violating the law and getting caught. This is the kind of law that would be viewed by most, even residents of DC, as "reasonable."


Have to jump on this one.

First lets consider and try to quantify "most."

In this context it seems that "most" means most folks across the US since this type of change would indeed get national attention. Now, we've all seen the polls and we are all aware of the lame stream medias posture on gun control...btw, their definition of "gun control" is where we dont have any at all.

So, at the end of the day, "some" - primarily folks like us - would view this kind of law as reasonable. It would get kicked and shouted down by the antis and demonized by the LSM.

Regarding the DC residents...I'm not so sure "most" of them would support it either since it caters mainly to non-residents...not them. It would be viewed as an avenue for people to legally bring in trunk loads of weapons for potential illegal sales.

So, to summarize...I agree with Garrett's position.... :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby dems4guns » Sat, 28 May 2011 18:42:40

Fat Andy,
I read the editorial from the Washington Post about Clarence Thomas's justification for voting in the majority to overtun Chicago's handgun ban.

He did not compare the suffering of gun owners to the suffering of blacks under Jim Crowe. That is what Gunderwood did.

I agree with Clarence Thomas's measure of full equality for black people. However, the majority of black people in DC want gun restrictions because of the heavy toll that gun violence is taking in their communities. Their view is that liberalizing guns will just lead to more guns in the streets and more bloodshed. This is not an unreasonable position, and while I understand their position and empathize with it, I must come down on the rights of the victims of gangs and violence to defend themselves legally. Anyone who wanta a gun to defend themselves and their family on their own property should be protected.And, if you have firearms in your home, you need to be able to transport them in your vehicle or public transportation unloaded to take them to a range to practice and purchase, sell, etc.

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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby zephyp » Sun, 29 May 2011 07:46:01

dems4guns wrote:Fat Andy,
Their view is that liberalizing guns will just lead to more guns in the streets and more bloodshed. This is not an unreasonable position, and while I understand their position and empathize with it...


Indeed and the very reason there is no bloodshed on the streets of Virginia towns and cities...thank God that guns are very strictly controlled in the good ole Commonwealth....

Please present a cogent argument and/or position regarding the thesis "...liberalizing guns will just lead to more guns in the streets and more bloodshed..." and why you agree with that thesis...

Inquiring minds want to know...

Not trying to be facetious either....the fact that VA gun crime is almost non-existent compared to places like Chicago, NYC, and DC is certainly no mystery to those us that truly understand the facts...

Oh, and my apologies if you lump me in the same category as gunderwood but statements like yours are the reason we shudder when people start talking about "reasonable gun control."
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

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Re: Washington, DC Firearm Transportation

Postby Yarddawg » Sun, 29 May 2011 07:50:56

zephyp wrote:
dems4guns wrote:Fat Andy,
Their view is that liberalizing guns will just lead to more guns in the streets and more bloodshed. This is not an unreasonable position, and while I understand their position and empathize with it...


Indeed and the very reason there is no bloodshed on the streets of Virginia towns and cities...thank God that guns are very strictly controlled in the good ole Commonwealth....

Please present a cogent argument and/or position regarding the thesis "...liberalizing guns will just lead to more guns in the streets and more bloodshed..." and why you agree with that thesis...

Inquiring minds want to know...

Not trying to be facetious either....the fact that VA gun crime is almost non-existent compared to places like Chicago, NYC, and DC is certainly no mystery to those us that truly understand the facts...

Oh, and my apologies if you lump me in the same category as gunderwood but statements like yours are the reason we shudder when people start talking about "reasonable gun control."


+1

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