internet ccp...

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Re: internet ccp...

Postby Chasbo00 » Thu, 07 Jun 2012 14:16:46

allingeneral wrote:
But this one helps VGOF :)
There is always price matching. :)
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Re: internet ccp...

Postby zerodown1 » Fri, 06 Jul 2012 20:14:26

Online courses may be legal,but they are not wise. They amount to enableing a person to apply for a CCP with little or no training. Someone who is going to carry a firearm in public should at a minimum be required to demonstrate safe gun handling and basic shooting skills. You can't learn to play golf online and you can't learn to use a firearm either. :pistol:
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Re: internet ccp...

Postby mrjam2jab » Sat, 07 Jul 2012 11:06:04

zerodown1 wrote:Online courses may be legal,but they are not wise. They amount to enableing a person to apply for a CCP with little or no training. Someone who is going to carry a firearm in public should at a minimum be required to demonstrate safe gun handling and basic shooting skills. You can't learn to play golf online and you can't learn to use a firearm either. :pistol:



And what's wrong with that really? I'm in PA...had my LTCF almost 20 yrs before I had my first "official" training.
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Re: internet ccp...

Postby SHMIV » Sat, 07 Jul 2012 17:32:41

One isn't required to prove anything in order to open carry.

I've never had any "official" training, and I open carry all the time without incident. A piece of cloth or leather or whatever covering my gun from common observation isn't going to have any impact on my safety record, positive, negative, or otherwise.

I don't believe that classes should be required. I DO believe that, if you have never had any experience with guns, you would do well to seek some instruction. But, that's a personal responsibility thing.

But, if classes are to be required anyway, I have no problem with taking the class online, at your personal convenience.
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Re: internet ccp...

Postby lizjimbo » Mon, 30 Jul 2012 12:28:54

I don't believe any conceal carry class will prepare anyone on when to use a weapon for defense. When that moment comes one needs a very strong relationship with God and needs to absolutely ask questions of ones self very quickly and listen to the answers. I am not talking about those voices that tell me to take off work and clean my guns...but my Gods voice that I turn to often. You know which one it is. It is the one that says save the money for gas instead of buying another rifle...that one that shows us that we are sometimes spoiled children.

I grew up with guns, the nature of a firearm does not scare me. People that open carry or concealed carry do not scare me either. The purpose of carrying a weapon concealed for self protection is what truly unnerved me. It is an awesome responsibility.

I did an online thingy for my permit. Quick and cheap. It did not, however, teach me on how to have a clue on what to do when under threat of serious violence. Those moments are made for me and my God...no instructors will be there. I hope I am not there either.

I do conceal carry a small 5 shot revolver. I don't carry very often but when I do I begin to feel much more comfortable with it on my side. It was an unnerving experience to carry it the very first time but it was a fear that must be faced. The more I carry the more relaxed I become. If I am afraid to carry then clearly if it ever becomes necessary to use it then I won't have the courage to reach for it...or if I do have the courage I won't understand if I am more afraid of the gun or the perceived threat. I have overcome my fear of carrying the gun so now I feel considerably more at ease, like wearing a seat belt.

My idea for new concealed carry folks is that you must carry it at least 3 times a week for one month...that is what a concealed carry class of any kind should require. Loose the fear of the responsibility.


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Re: internet ccp...

Postby BHG1978 » Mon, 30 Jul 2012 14:59:10

steelheart wrote:anyone else going uhhh by the whole "get your concealed carry online" thing besides me? i know in this day and age were all busy and barely have time to breath but id rather have someone at LEAST do a mandatory 2 hour class at minimum to get their permit for concealed carry. i know there are firearms instructors on here so chime in folks. sorry for any typos.



a chp in va is not much more than a 50 dollar handgun owner tax payed every 5 years and a gun carrier name and address database The way they get around getting called out on it as a tax is by pretending they actually care the person received "training" with or without ever touching or firing the weapon even once.

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Re: internet ccp...

Postby bowman » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 22:16:07

SHMIV wrote:I don't believe that classes should be required.


I second this. Let's get rid of the fees while we're at it.

Virginia's gun laws are better than many places, but they're still unconstitutional. Virginia needs to become the next "Constitutional Carry" State (Commonwealth).
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Re: internet ccp...

Postby zerodown1 » Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:54:29

bowman wrote:
SHMIV wrote:I don't believe that classes should be required.


I second this. Let's get rid of the fees while we're at it.

Virginia's gun laws are better than many places, but they're still unconstitutional. Virginia needs to become the next "Constitutional Carry" State (Commonwealth).

We may not agree with the law but it is what it is. As responsible gun owners we have to operate within that frame work. Its true that for many people who have grown up with guns,shot most of their lives,and learned from their parents about gun safety and ethical responsibility, that these classes are little more than just another way to get a CHP. But remember, there are many people who don't know one end of the gun from the other and these are the ones that need this kind of training. What they learn about guns and how to shoot is up to the instructor. Like everything else,all instructors are not the same. I can see why some who address this issue thinking that it dosen't benifit anyone because they already knew it all would think that all instructors must be the same and all classes are the same. The whole training issue is bigger than any one of us. We can see in the news all the time and read about it on this forum, "that guy was a dummy" he should have had some training and maybe he wouldn't have brought ammo into the safety class and shot himself and his wife. Or maybe the guy at hooters would have benifited from more training. Or maybe the guy that purchased a new gun and pulled over the side of the road to play with it wouldn't have shot himself in the leg,and the list goes on and on. Are these examples from people than can buy a gun and carry it without training,maybe. Lets say "without the proped education" regardless of where you get it. If your posistion is that someone with no knowledge of firearms,and has not had ,or read here, that he dosen't need any training to start carrying his gun and maybe have to use it is just fine,do it that way "cause you can" and use the constitution to justify irresposible behavior, then I think that some need to revisit their posistion. I know that some are going to disagree with everything I said,and thats fine. We live in a Country where there is room for everyones opinion. Just remember that everyone dosen't know what you know,and that they look to you for advise,to this forum for advise. Some need the training,some don't. Do you know whos reading the things you put on this forum. Do you know whos who,who will take your advise and get no training,and maybe become another firearms statistic,more ammo for the anti gun crowd. If we don't have some responsible standard to follow,some sort of self policing,someone from the anti-gun movement will do it for us and we aren't going to like it.
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Re: internet ccp...

Postby bowman » Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:12:01

zerodown1 wrote:
bowman wrote:
SHMIV wrote:I don't believe that classes should be required.


I second this. Let's get rid of the fees while we're at it.

Virginia's gun laws are better than many places, but they're still unconstitutional. Virginia needs to become the next "Constitutional Carry" State (Commonwealth).

If your posistion is that someone with no knowledge of firearms,and has not had ,or read here, that he dosen't need (emphasis mine) any training to start carrying his gun


Sorry for the misunderstanding. I believe every gun owner needs training.

However, I also believe in the rule of law and personal responsibility. Therefore I don't believe the government can or should require training for citizens to carry firearms.

I suppose I simply interpret the Second Amendment differently and have a different view on the role of government.
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Re: internet ccp...

Postby steelheart » Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:31:49

interesting. alotta the old "government interference" and "no time to do it except online" excuses. im glad to see a few like zerodown1 read and understood what my concern is. people if you cant walk and chew gum then dont carry, you'll end up as fodder for the antis.


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Re: internet ccp...

Postby mrjam2jab » Mon, 03 Sep 2012 16:00:22

Does the MD online class cover the requirement?

MD Class

It's presented by the same folks that train the MD State Police it looks like.
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Re: internet ccp...

Postby SHMIV » Wed, 05 Sep 2012 01:48:53

steelheart wrote:
interesting. alotta the old "government interference" and "no time to do it except online" excuses. im glad to see a few like zerodown1 read and understood what my concern is. people if you cant walk and chew gum then dont carry, you'll end up as fodder for the antis.



There is merit to the "government interference" and the "no time to do it, except online" arguments.

I never received the first bit of training on use of a circular saw. One day, I found myself needing to use one. It was an old saw; the manual had been lost long ago. So, I took a few things into consideration. "Let's see, this is a saw. It is designed to cut stuff.", I said to myself. "I had better keep my fingers away from the blade while the blade is in motion. Wouldn't want to lose a digit. While I'm at it, I suppose that, while I am cutting, I should keep things that I do not want cut out of the path of the saw" In other words, I used some plain ol' common sense. But, I've known guys that have years of experience that have injured themselves with circular saws. One guy in my area, a few years back, used his saw to swat a bug or scratch an itch on the back of his neck. He cut his fool head off. Some people are injured because they happened to be near someone who was using their circular saw irresponsibly.

Shall the government regulate the sale, use, and carry of a circular saw? What about kitchen knives? My former aunt killed her last boyfriend with one of those. Shall those also be regulated? Shall we be required to take a class and obtain a permit for possession and use of a bathtub? People drown in those.

Government regulation is a horrible replacement for personal responsibility and common sense.

Nobody is knocking the idea of training. And, online training is better than no training.

But, here is something I learned from working in service industry: You can take a class on given subject, and you can take and pass a test on the same subject. But achieving that doesn't mean that you actually get it. Or, for that matter, care.
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Re: internet ccp...

Postby skeeterss0 » Wed, 05 Sep 2012 05:25:44

Government regulation is a horrible replacement for personal responsibility and common sense.


all for peronal responsibility here. Somewhere along the years a lot of people have lost that. It's always someone elses fault they smoked 2 packs a day and omg they ended up with cancer, or they sit on the couch all day in front of the boob tube sucking down soft drinks and junk food and omg they got fat, but its never their fault.


I agree also with an online course is bettter than no course at all.
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Re: internet ccp...

Postby donut » Thu, 06 Sep 2012 14:36:46

I find it amazing that one can be qualified or considered qualified by taking a online course, at no point does a person have to handle a weapon in that process. I also wonder how does that devalue all of the other paperwork that can accepted for demonstrated competence. I mean, so a online course carries the same weight and demonstrated competence as military discharge papers? In the military you spend stupid amounts of time handling weapons, versus not even having to touch one? Something seems off here.

To be honest with you I'm just as surprised that the NRA isn't up in arms about this. I mean it really seems to hurt their legitimacy as one of the premiere recognized training institutions in the country.


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Re: internet ccp...

Postby tursiops » Thu, 06 Sep 2012 14:51:24

I suspect as many firearms accidents are caused by complacency and arrogance as are caused by lack of training.
At least, that is true of some other topics I work with. The safest people are those with decent training but not too much experience. the most accidents come from those with little training or lots of experience....complacency kills. Example: the chain-saw story above.


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Re: internet ccp...

Postby lizjimbo » Tue, 02 Oct 2012 18:57:43

The military is not a wonderful qualifier of firearms handling. When I was in the Navy qualifying consisted of once a year shooting off a few rounds from an M1 and a few rounds out of a 45 from the fantail of the ship. Very few military actually handle firearms as often as civilians and most military will tell you that the ar's and the other fun stuff stay locked up in the armory. I probably have fired off my guns more in the last month than most military guys that are state side do in a year. The point I am making is that no one is really trained to know what to do with a firearm when that awful time comes. It is all pure adrenalin reaction. Shooting straight without shooting oneself in the foot is the easy part. Shooting someone else in the foot is the hard part. If it were easy and natural our war fighters would not be leaving the war zones so messed up. Although man is capable of doing great harm in the preservation of his life or the lives of those around him, it is what happens to the man after he does that great harm that is the real problem. One reason that the military started having the infantry train with the silhouettes was because of the high rate of the troops that could not pull the trigger during WW2 and Vietnam. A concealed carry permit, I have one, does not endow me with any special insight in what to do if an awful moment rears its ugly head...I just hope I have the presence of mind and time to ask my God for immediate wisdom.


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Re: internet ccp...

Postby scrubber3 » Wed, 03 Oct 2012 02:08:52

As a combat veteran in a combat MOS, I can assure you that whilst i served I had my rifle and sidearm with me a great deal and used them very often. I can use whatever firearm, whenever without hesitation and be very, very proficient at it. I assure you.

Maybe, the regs should state that combat military specialties only are pardoned from face to face NRA training. This would effectively eliminate the Navy and AF getting a CCP without proper training.

Now, every single person to ever enlist or be commissioned in any military branch has had some sort of basic rifle marksmanship training. Correct? Number one thing trained upon is safety. Correct?
Depending on what branch you are in, you get anywhere between 1 entire week(12 hr days) to 6 weeks worth of weapons training. How is this inferior to a 3 or 6 hour course?
I had a SCAR 17 and 16. I also had a bunch of Glocks and a couple H&K pistols. Oh and a DDM4, but I sold everything when our government told me these dangerous tools can actually hurt someone. Apparently they grow legs and go on killing sprees.


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Re: internet ccp...

Postby lizjimbo » Thu, 11 Oct 2012 14:14:07

Wasn't trying to inflame sensibilities. Just that folks need to recognize there is a big difference between shooting up the enemy in combat and trying to decide when it is absolutely appropriate to use deadly force against civilians here in the United States. If you think there is no difference, someone may end up dead without justification and the other will end up in prison.


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Re: internet ccp...

Postby Tzupp86 » Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:53:53

Online classes in regards to CHP - As a check in the box for experienced gun owners. Sure, great thing.


However, I think it opens a whole new can of worms for the metaphorical "10%" that ruin things for everyone.


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Re: internet ccp...

Postby downzero » Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:40:23

The Constitution is all the permit they need. :farmer:
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