Background Checks/IDs

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Background Checks/IDs

Postby ShadowByte » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 07:02:16

I was curious if the form of ID you show would have any bearing on the speed of your background check results? The last two purchases I have made, I have been held up and had to return after 4 hours or the next day, however I know for 100% I have never had any legal issues or restraining orders or anything remotely close. The two forms of ID I have used were DL and voters registration card and the second time the CHP.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that FedEx will be delivering my shiny new Stag Model 3 today to the FFL and I wanted to bring it home if I could, as the weather is a wee bit sketchy tomorrow. I am bringing 4 forms of ID, including a passport this time, in hopes it may be a better document, but it is probably wishful thinking.

Does anyone know or have you had mixed results depending on the documentation you provide? Or is it just crap luck that some one who is of ill repute has the same name as me? What causes those delays? When I bought my .22 a few years back, it was a quick phone call and a handshake later and I was out of the door after paying for it.


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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby mk4 » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 07:28:37

not sure about whether forms of id matter so much, but commonality of name sure might cause a delay. my name's rare.

my experience...
1st purchase, approval came back in under 2 minutes.
2nd purchase, clerk in store said things were running 2hrs or more, but my approval came back in 5min or so.
3rd purchase, just last tuesday (earthquake day), was delayed over night because the sp had trouble accessing the nics. i came back the next morning to finish the transaction.

for the first two, i used dl + veh reg.
for the last, i used my dl + chp.
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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby allingeneral » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 07:53:54

I don't see any correlation between the documents used and the speed of the check. I've used my Voter card and my CHP as second forms of ID - here are a few results:

Revolver @ Gun show - D/L and Voter card - Couple of minutes
Shotgun @ Gun show - D/L and CHP - Couple of hours
Rifle at Wal-mart - D/L and Voter card - more than a day, hope to pick it up today.

Strangely though, the rifle purchase at Wal-mart yesterday...the manager said that the lady she was talking to at the VSP said something about "Delayed - Authorization out until August 31st" Anyone know what that means?
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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby ShadowByte » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 07:56:04

allingeneral wrote:Strangely though, the rifle purchase at Wal-mart yesterday...the manager said that the lady she was talking to at the VSP said something about "Delayed - Authorization out until August 31st" Anyone know what that means?


Ugh, that means no AR-15 today. I wonder if they are still back logged from earlier this week?


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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby mk4 » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:01:31

i don't think i've ever seen anything remotely like an AR at wally world...
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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby allingeneral » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:04:59

ShadowByte wrote:
allingeneral wrote:Strangely though, the rifle purchase at Wal-mart yesterday...the manager said that the lady she was talking to at the VSP said something about "Delayed - Authorization out until August 31st" Anyone know what that means?


Ugh, that means no AR-15 today. I wonder if they are still back logged from earlier this week?


I was afraid of that - just didn't want to believe that they would actually delay my purchase until 31 August! Crying out loud...if that's the case, I'm not going to be happy about it. :thumbsdown:

There's a Ruger mini-14 at our local walmart, but this purchase is just for a little Remmy 597 (22LR) in camo for my son's birthday.
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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby ShadowByte » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:30:13

mk4 wrote:i don't think i've ever seen anything remotely like an AR at wally world...


No, the AR is coming from an FFL to an FFL...trust me, our Walmart doesn't have anything close to an AR-15. No firearms to speak of aside from black powder I think.

I meant that it seems that the background checks in general are back logged, so if I go today, I'll be in the same boat and will be delayed 24+ hrs.


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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby ShadowByte » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:33:56

allingeneral wrote:I was afraid of that - just didn't want to believe that they would actually delay my purchase until 31 August! Crying out loud...if that's the case, I'm not going to be happy about it. :thumbsdown:

There's a Ruger mini-14 at our local walmart, but this purchase is just for a little Remmy 597 (22LR) in camo for my son's birthday.


Well, hopefully she means just delayed in general vs. an instant check and not that you'll (we'll) have to wait until the 31st.

Definitely a nice birthday present! Happy birthday to your son and I hope you can get the rifle today for him.


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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby gunderwood » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:57:02

ShadowByte wrote:
allingeneral wrote:I was afraid of that - just didn't want to believe that they would actually delay my purchase until 31 August! Crying out loud...if that's the case, I'm not going to be happy about it. :thumbsdown:

There's a Ruger mini-14 at our local walmart, but this purchase is just for a little Remmy 597 (22LR) in camo for my son's birthday.


Well, hopefully she means just delayed in general vs. an instant check and not that you'll (we'll) have to wait until the 31st.

Definitely a nice birthday present! Happy birthday to your son and I hope you can get the rifle today for him.

Isn't the law that they can't delay longer than 3 days unless they have reason to believe the sale would violate state/federal law? The default is to approve if you don't get denied within 3 days. It keeps them from purposefully delaying as a matter of politics. I don't believe a backlog legally counts.
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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby allingeneral » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 13:51:40

gunderwood wrote:
ShadowByte wrote:
allingeneral wrote:I was afraid of that - just didn't want to believe that they would actually delay my purchase until 31 August! Crying out loud...if that's the case, I'm not going to be happy about it. :thumbsdown:

There's a Ruger mini-14 at our local walmart, but this purchase is just for a little Remmy 597 (22LR) in camo for my son's birthday.


Well, hopefully she means just delayed in general vs. an instant check and not that you'll (we'll) have to wait until the 31st.

Definitely a nice birthday present! Happy birthday to your son and I hope you can get the rifle today for him.

Isn't the law that they can't delay longer than 3 days unless they have reason to believe the sale would violate state/federal law? The default is to approve if you don't get denied within 3 days. It keeps them from purposefully delaying as a matter of politics. I don't believe a backlog legally counts.


Pretty sure I've heard something about the 3-day rule somewhere, but I don't have a cite. Would it be state or federal law?
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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby dorminWS » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 14:29:54

I always use DL and CHP. Mine have always gone straight through. In fact, I usually fill out the state form and I'm approved before I can get the federal form filled out. But one time (not the last time - - about 4-6 weeks ago) I got delayed. Had to go back a day or two later to pick up the gun. Was afraid I'd been flagged for buying too many guns or something. But the next time I went right through. JE said the system had a message about the system being disabled the time I was delayed. Probably a mixture of system overload and short personnel, and probably worse in highly-populated areas. Might have something to do with the awful mess all my buddies that work for the state say Northrup-Grumman has made of their PC networks. They've been griping about that nonstop for 2-3 years now. Goes back to a sweetheart deal made by the Warner administration (which is who also established both the Virginia Department of Information Services and the Virginia Department of General Services, whose purpose in my opinion was to control every nickel spent from the Governor's office in Richmond so they could favor Warner's buddies) and continued by Mr. Kaine's. Makes me wonder, too, because they switched all state agencies to Hewlett-Packards (I hate HPs). And now I hear HP is getting out of the PC business. Had a HP server once and couldn't replace a floppy drive unless I bought it from HP, who sent a service tech 140 miles to switch it out. I was told that a generic drive wouldn't work in a HP. How would YOU like to have thousands of HP servers and desktops/laptops out there with no HP to sell you parts or service? Why does this matter? Well, if the HP deal has anything to do with system problems that cause approval delays, it might be going to get worse before it gets any better.
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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby gunderwood » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:06:08

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin ... -filed.pdf
Statutory Requirements
Section 922(t) generally makes it
unlawful for any licensed firearms
importer, manufacturer, or dealer to sell,
deliver, or transfer a firearm to an
unlicensed individual (transferee),
unless—
1. Before the completion of the
transfer, the licensee contacts the
national instant background check
system;
2. The system provides the licensee
with a unique identification number
signifying that transfer of the firearm
would not be in violation of law OR 3
business days (meaning a day on which
State offices are open) have elapsed
from the date the licensee contacted the
system and the system has not notified
the licensee that receipt of the firearm
by the transferee would be in violation
of law;
and
3. The licensee verifies the identity of
the transferee by examining a valid
identification document containing a
photograph of the transferee.


922 (t) says (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922):
(t)(1) Beginning on the date that is 30 days after the Attorney
General notifies licensees under section 103(d) of the Brady
Handgun Violence Prevention Act that the national instant criminal
background check system is established, a licensed importer,
licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer shall not transfer a
firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this chapter,
unless -
    (A) before the completion of the transfer, the licensee
    contacts the national instant criminal background check system
    established under section 103 of that Act;
    (B)
      (i) the system provides the licensee with a unique
      identification number; or
      (ii) 3 business days (meaning a day on which State offices are
      open) have elapsed since the licensee contacted the system, and
      the system has not notified the licensee that the receipt of a
      firearm by such other person would violate subsection (g) or (n)
      of this section; and
    (C) the transferor has verified the identity of the transferee
    by examining a valid identification document (as defined in
    section 1028(d) of this title) of the transferee containing a
    photograph of the transferee.
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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby RocKor » Fri, 26 Aug 2011 22:35:23

To clarify a few things:

First, delays nowadays are mainly random. ~36% of all submissions to the VSP are going to be delayed, because of "budget cuts and layoffs." That is what VSP is telling FFLs in the state.

Secondly, your ID should have nothing to do with it because the TYPE OF SECONDARY ID is NOT SUBMITTED on the online form to the State Police, unless it is a CHP and you are buying a handgun (the CHP is entered to show the exemption to 1 Handgun a month.)

Thirdly, yes the FFL can release the gun after 3 days of delayed or research status but it is a policy of many gun stores to not do so. If they DO release it, the VSP will verbally discourage them from doing so over the phone, but that is all.
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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby jdonovan » Sat, 27 Aug 2011 07:38:11

ShadowByte wrote:I was curious if the form of ID you show would have any bearing on the speed of your background check results?


The delay/speed has no relation to the ID's used. Usually what causes problems is a similar name/information hit in the crimes database.

Ah here we go....

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/g ... fact-sheet

A delay response indicates that information you supplied on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Form 4473 has been matched with information contained in the National Crime Information Center, the Interstate Identification Index,


The FFL is not prohibited from transferring the firearm after three business days have passed; however, the FFL is not required to transfer the firearm


You can apply for and get a special personal ID number if you are consistently delayed to uniquely identify yourself as 'not that bad guy'


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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby RocKor » Sat, 27 Aug 2011 23:50:32

jdonovan wrote:You can apply for and get a special personal ID number if you are consistently delayed to uniquely identify yourself as 'not that bad guy'


Actually if you do get a U-PIN from the ATF you'll ALWAYS be delayed by VSP (whether you use it or not). The UPIN isn't something normally submitted electronically to the VSP and has to be called in, then they have to delay you to check on the UPIN's validity.

So don't bother. :?
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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby jaywade » Sun, 28 Aug 2011 01:48:55

I think most people just don't understand how LITTLE info is sent in to the VSP durring a background check... not your address, not the SN# of the gun you are buying, not your DL # not even your SSN unless you provide it (I always do) ...still some people always get delayed and then you may not one month but get delayed the next time.... as far as the 3 day rule a FFL could release it after 3 days but most will not...the VSP need to rework all this if you ask me, I think they are doing a poor job


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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby RocKor » Mon, 29 Aug 2011 00:29:53

They should just repeal the Virginia Gun Check system. It was enacted BEFORE the Brady Bill or the NICS checks were ever implemented, and is now a unneeded relic.
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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby gunderwood » Mon, 29 Aug 2011 01:00:06

RocKor wrote:They should just repeal the Virginia Gun Check system. It was enacted BEFORE the Brady Bill or the NICS checks were ever implemented, and is now a unneeded relic.

+1

Repeal the Brady check too for all the good it does.
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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby ShadowByte » Mon, 29 Aug 2011 07:22:14

That is interesting, I never knew about the 3 day rule. I love this place, I learn something new and valuable every day I swear.

I did end up getting delayed, but I almost think that was happening to everyone on Friday. The lady was on hold for >20 minutes before giving the information. I actually paid more attention this time this time to phone call instead of looking about...that did surprise me how little info they do give them. I guess it is my luck to have a name similar to an unsavory fellow some where. I supplied my SSN this time in hopes it would speed it up, but oh well.

I was spoiled the first time I purchased in Virginia...coming from the wonderful state of Maryland, I was anticipating the long waiting period...it floored me to actually be able to walk out of the store that day with the pistol.

Well at least I got to handle the Stag Model 3 Friday for a bit...that hurt having to hand it back though ;-) So theoretically by tomorrow I should have it in hand at the latest...


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Re: Background Checks/IDs

Postby CCFan » Mon, 29 Aug 2011 20:44:09

I've found that if you just purchase a firearm a month, they seem to remember you pretty well and they all go through really quickly... :whistle: Isn't that the rule? You're supposed to purchase one a month?

Hope you get the Stag soon... Don't forget your range report!!
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