Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

OK, you all have convinced me that something in 5.56 NATO might be a good idea. Why, I'm not yet sure, but what the hey.

The two choices I'm looking at are the AR-15 or Ruger's Mini-14. I've heard pros and cons about both. I remember, from my Air Force experience, that AR-15's do require pretty fastidious cleaning. I've also heard that Mini-14's are much better than they used to be back in the day, and that they're said to be the "AK's" of the .223 world for reliability. However, despite the Mini-14's reputed improvements since 2005, the AR's precision at long range, and general customizability, are very well known.

This wouldn't be a rifle for trickin' out or anything. It'd be for shootin'. As is typical for me, I'd shoot it basically bone-stock. Both will take a scope, which is about the extent of any "mods", and that's not even really a "mod".

So, suggestions on which to go for, and as importantly, why?

Having owned both and still have a mini 14 it depends on what your'e gonna use it for. For just plinking and burning up ammo you can't beat the mini 14. It's reliable and will eat anything you feed it, but sucks in the accuracy department. Ar's on the other hand are generally more accurate but can be finicky about loads. I think the mini is way more fun to shoot but that's my opinion.

Vahunter wrote:Having owned both and still have a mini 14 it depends on what your'e gonna use it for. For just plinking and burning up ammo you can't beat the mini 14. It's reliable and will eat anything you feed it, but sucks in the accuracy department. Ar's on the other hand are generally more accurate but can be finicky about loads. I think the mini is way more fun to shoot but that's my opinion.

Although I agree with you about the "eat anything you serve'em" comment, I disagree with the accuracy statement. I have owned both for a long time and both are fun to shoot, and accurate. The Ruger(I am talking older, not poly,) is a fine weapon. Crisp and clean and in my opinion precise. The Ar- seems to me to be more user friendly, in that is has so many more accessory possibilities and functionality options. I have never had an issue with dependabilitiy , although I always use 62 gr. The availabilty of accesory items for an AR15 tips it to that weapon in my opinion, but in no way will I concede the reliability of the Rugar Mini.(again I have no exp, with the new models.)

I agree, Mini-14's are just a lot of fun for plinking. Nutnfancy did one of his tactical field courses with a Mini-14, AR-15, and AK-47, and the Mini-14 came out on top just barely. The Mini-14 does not have accuracy from the bench, but for plinking it will do just fine.

That said, I recently bought an AR-15 for 2-gun matches for two reason, neither one is about accuracy. First, when I shoot from inside a booth at a range, the casings bounce around the walls hitting me in the head a lot. One went down the back of my shirt. Mini-14's are known for slinging their brass 15-20 feet. Second, magazine changes. There is no doubt about it, the AR-15 magazines release easier and seat cleaner than a Mini-14... plus there are more options.

If you do get a Mini-14, don't bother with 3rd party steel magazines. Get the Ruger ones. I've also found that the new Tapco 30rd polymer mags work well with 55gr bullets (longer bullets cause problems it would seem). Also, you need to think about how you want to mount your scope. A rail adapter is likely the best way to go.

Either way you go, Mini-14 or AR-15, you'll enjoy it.

With the cost of an mini-14 approaching or exceeding (in tactical form) entry level ARs, get the AR.

Years ago the two primary reasons to get a mini-14 were:

A. it doesn't look as evil because it wasn't black (the new tactical version eliminate this)

or

B. it cost much less than an AR (not anymore)

You can create any kind of test to make anything you want to come out on top. Get what you prefer, either is good. However, most people shoot better and prefer the AR for a tactical carbine IMHO.

As much as I loathe the AR platform, I will concede that it is a mature system that is as good as it's going to get in the caliber it's saddled with. It's not the failure-prone pile it was forty years ago, and it doesn't have to be white-glove clean to run.

It's also an erector set for adults, and that seems to appeal to a lot of people. Unless you want a traditional, wood-stocked plinking rifle, the AR is the better way to go.

Now if you want a real rifle, we can talk about that...

CowboyT wrote:OK, you all have convinced me that something in 5.56 NATO might be a good idea. Why, I'm not yet sure, but what the hey.

The two choices I'm looking at are the AR-15 or Ruger's Mini-14. I've heard pros and cons about both. I remember, from my Air Force experience, that AR-15's do require pretty fastidious cleaning.

Yup. I had one that would start to malfunction after about 1,000 rounds. BS.
My Marlin 22 hasn't been cleaned in 3,000.

I've had a few ARs, but I have wanted a Mini 14 since I was 10 years old, and the 10 page Ruger ad was in Popular Science magazine. For some reason, I never got one.

Actually, putting wood furniture on a Mini-14 is one of the advantages I think it has over the AR-15. That and you can put a folding stock on it too.

Obviously there are more toys for the AR-15, but the Mini-14 has a decent parts and accessories market.

In my opinion, an AR-15 is easier to take down and clean, though neither is truly difficult.

Hmm...all good information here, and I've also been doing not just the proper Googling, but also asking as many folks as I can. I appreciate everyone's input here.

As with all my guns (not that I have a lot yet), this would be an actual shooter that I would use as much as possible, no safe queens here. It's good to hear real-life accounts about 1.5 MOA from a Mini-14, so I know it's an option. Whichever one I end up with, I don't mind either wood or plastic furniture, as long as it works well and is comfortable to shoot. Whichever one I buy, I will be sure to...



@Diomed: Would a Mosin-Nagant in 7.62x54R qualify for "real" rifle?

To stop the brass from flying 50 feet you can change the gas port bushing with takes about 15 minutes and costs less than $10.00. Cowboy if you want to know everything about a mini 14 go on over to perfectunion.com. Any question can be answered there. Bunch of good people who like and know their mini's.

CowboyT wrote:Hmm...all good information here, and I've also been doing not just the proper Googling, but also asking as many folks as I can. I appreciate everyone's input here.

As with all my guns (not that I have a lot yet), this would be an actual shooter that I would use as much as possible, no safe queens here. It's good to hear real-life accounts about 1.5 MOA from a Mini-14, so I know it's an option. Whichever one I end up with, I don't mind either wood or plastic furniture, as long as it works well and is comfortable to shoot. Whichever one I buy, I will be sure to...

CowboyT, you should come out sometime with Taggure and I. I'll bring my AR(s).

CowboyT wrote:@Diomed: Would a Mosin-Nagant in 7.62x54R qualify for "real" rifle?

30 cal? Are you serious? If your HD gun doesn't end in BMG you're a pansy...

1.5 MOA out of a mini 14 is rare. Sure there are some out of the box mini's that will do it but don't hold your breath. One day I put a 3 MOA reddot on mine and proceded to shoot a 3" group. I think the sun. moon and stars were aligned perfectly that day because it never happen again even with a 4x12 power scope. I like shooting it because of the pray and spray reliability.
From what I have heard the newer models are fairly accurate.

gunderwood wrote:CowboyT, you should come out sometime with Taggure and I. I'll bring my AR(s).

Actually, I'd love to. Shooting opportunities past 50 yards in NoVA are pretty hard to come by, so sure, definitely up for that.

30 cal? Are you serious? If your HD gun doesn't end in BMG you're a pansy...

Hmmm...you've got a point there. You can kill and cook the BG at the same time!

Vahunter wrote:To stop the brass from flying 50 feet you can change the gas port bushing with takes about 15 minutes and costs less than $10.00. Cowboy if you want to know everything about a mini 14 go on over to perfectunion.com. Any question can be answered there. Bunch of good people who like and know their mini's.

Just went there and had a look. Thanks for that link! I will definitely be perusing that before making a decision. I'm looking to decide by the time of the upcoming Chantilly show, and hopefully someone will have both an AR and a Mini for decent prices. Yes, if I could afford to do so, I'd probably end up with both...but sadly, that's not (yet) an option.

It'd be really nice if the Mini-14 took AR mags, but I've learned those are proprietary. Proprietary = not so good in my book.

From NOVA Armament's Twitter feed:

New Shipment of Spikes Tactical ST-15s AR-15s are in. $799. Quantities are limited.

I have both - an old Mini-14 and a 6.8 mm AR-15 that I built about a year ago. I've shot tons of stuff out of the Mini w/o a single issue. Even cleaned it a few times over the years. Mine isn't all that accurate, but there's an attachment that you can buy that cuts down the barrel whip and improves accuracy quite a bit. I plan on springing for one, but don't have the website handy at the moment.

I'm not a fan of AR's in general. They are touchy about what they'll shoot and can be a bear to clean, especially in/around the bolt and bolt carrier. But it was fun to build. You can get uppers in all sorts of calibers. I decided to build mine because I wanted a 6.8 mm carbine and got a great deal on an LMT upper, but also am saving towards a .50 Beowolf upper for it. Don't plan on getting a 5.56 upper. That's what my Mini is for.

As for bargain basement AR-15's, that's exactly all you get. As I said AR's are touchy beasts. A cheap one probably won't shoot as nice as a Mini and certainly won't be as reliable. My experience is that if you pay cheap, you get cheap - especially with firearms. Better to save up a little longer and get something that's reliable and will last.

I see .223 as a fun plinking round and nothing more. You can get .223 dirt cheap in mass quantities. That suits the Mini-14 very well. The 6.8 AR is for serious shooting. If it was a 5.56, it would just be another plinker.

My recommendation: but a Mini 14 now with Ruger magazines (they run sales on them occasionally) and build a nice AR-15 later in the caliber of your choice.

CowboyT - if you live in the NoVA area, we can meet and you can shoot my Ruger SR-556.

I'm a geek (and a military brat), so the cool factor of the piston appealed to me. I chose it over the Mini-14 based purely on anecdotal feedback about quality on the Mini-14. Now that I am a little more knowledgeable about firearms, I probably would still pick up an AR. (Though again, the geek in me likes the sound of the Mini 30.)

Back to the piston - I had a jam last weekend with cheap Wolf ammo, and the piston was nice. Despite running more than 200 rounds through it, I was able to pop it open, and yank an absolutely cool BCG from the receiver. I would not recommend touching the gas regulator, though.)

Mindflayer--just PM'd you.

CowboyT wrote:@Diomed: Would a Mosin-Nagant in 7.62x54R qualify for "real" rifle?

Ehhh... it's a bolt action, so it's pretty iffy. To be sure you'd want to upgrade to a SVT/AVT, or SVD.