Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

Website · by **Reca** » Sat, 23 Jun 2012 17:30:07

It is to my understanding that an AR pistol can not have a grip installed on it with out being registered with the NFA. Does that mean all grips or just verticle grips? I am interested in an angle grip from magpul. Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks.

by **meak99** » Sat, 23 Jun 2012 18:59:02

See here:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/4583 ... stol_.html

To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application on ATF Form 1, “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” The applicant must submit the completed form, along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant’s fingerprints; a photograph; and $200.00. The application will be reviewed by the NFA Branch. If the applicant is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and possession of an “AOW” is not prohibited in the applicant’s State of residence, the form will be approved. Only then may the person add a vertical fore grip to the designated handgun.

Website · by **Reca** » Sat, 23 Jun 2012 20:47:34

Ok I read, re-read, then read it one more time and this part still leaves asking...

ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment.

So does that mean since I am going to put an angled foregrip opposed to a vertical grip I will not need to fill out a Form 1 for the NFA?

Grip in question

Thanks again.

by **grumpyMSG** » Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:00:23

Reca wrote:Ok I read, re-read, then read it one more time and this part still leaves asking...

ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment.

So does that mean since I am going to put an angled foregrip opposed to a vertical grip I will not need to fill out a Form 1 for the NFA?

Grip in question

Thanks again.

I would advise against it for two reasons:

1. You are having trouble interpreting the law, it is likely the the ATF person and prosecutor handling a potential case against you would have the same difficulty, costing you plenty in attorney fees, even in the event of a successful defense, lose and it's jail/ fine time.

ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.

2. The designed purpose of the AFG is to allow you to grasp it more comfortably with the second hand, violating the above rule. That is exactly what they would go after you for.

by **Diomed** » Sun, 24 Jun 2012 02:06:01

There's a letter floating around where ATF states only vertical, ninety-degrees from bore axis foregrips are prohibited on pistols. Of course, one must remember that letters apply only to the party to whom they are addressed, so if you want to do something, you ought to get your own letter.

by **jdonovan** » Sun, 24 Jun 2012 05:13:34

you're looking for legal advice... I'd suggest a lawyer.

The $200 NFA tax is a minor nit vs the potential legal bill if barney fife decides to make an example of you.

Therefore, I would advise you to avoid ALL forward grips on pistols.

Really the NFA thing isn't that bad to do/deal with, ya the waiting is a drag, but once you've got a SBR lower, you've got limitless options for uppers in many variety of lengths.

Website · by **Reca** » Sun, 24 Jun 2012 09:56:42

I was forwarded this link:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0qyloA48O3XZWFjYjMwYTMtYTg1MC00NzVhLWI3NmMtZDRiNTMzNzdhMzUx/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1

And told "If it required a tax stamp they would have stated such as they did with question #6

But I think I will Just get the Tax stamp. Itll make life easier in the long run. Thank you everyone for your responses.

:thumbsup:

by **ImmortalArms** » Mon, 25 Jun 2012 21:12:39

I was going to send you the letter, but it looks like you already have it. Yes, the AFG is legal. I have confirmed this the NFA branch myself.

by **Diomed** » Tue, 26 Jun 2012 00:19:39

ImmortalArms wrote:I was going to send you the letter, but it looks like you already have it. Yes, the AFG is legal. I have confirmed this the NFA branch myself.

You mean Tech Branch, right?

by **Chingon** » Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:32:43

Joe,
If you get a stamp, might as well get a stamp for an SBR lower.

Website · by **Reca** » Fri, 06 Jul 2012 12:57:08

Chingon wrote:Joe,
If you get a stamp, might as well get a stamp for an SBR lower.

Thats exactly what I intend to do :whistle:

by **jdonovan** » Fri, 06 Jul 2012 13:16:59

Chingon wrote:Joe,
If you get a stamp, might as well get a stamp for an SBR lower.

a stamp... hehehehehhehe thats funny. You start with "A" stamp, and then it becomes 10, and then 20, and before you know it you've got nothing but NFA in your collection. Its a disease I tell you.

by **Diomed** » Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:50:31

jdonovan wrote:a stamp... hehehehehhehe thats funny. You start with "A" stamp, and then it becomes 10, and then 20, and before you know it you've got nothing but NFA in your collection. Its a disease I tell you.

Truth.

by **jdonovan** » Sun, 08 Jul 2012 07:26:26

61.... are there dupes i.e. same make/models or are they all unique?

by **Diomed** » Tue, 10 Jul 2012 01:01:52

jdonovan wrote:61.... are there dupes i.e. same make/models or are they all unique?

Fifty-six, actually. Fifty-five visible, one I found stuck to the back of another form as I was picking them up after the picture. There are a few other forms I have floating around that haven't made it into the master file for whatever reason. Anyway, there are a couple of duplicates for silencers, since I consider them wear items. There are also a few that appear to be duplicates but are not - one manufacturer calls all of his silencers the same model name, even though the ones I have are integrals on Ruger pistols, Ruger rifles, CZ rifles, and even a 9mm pistol can.